Cognitive Behavioral Coaching (CBC) | Psychology of Life Coaching Part 4

Debra Maldonado  00:23 

Hello, everyone, welcome to another fantastic episode of Soul Sessions, with Deborah and Rob in Creative Mind. How are you today, Rob?

Robert Maldonado  00:31

Good, good. And we’re talking about one of our favorite topics.

Debra Maldonado  00:35

Psychology? 

Robert Maldonado  00:37

But in particular, about cognitive therapy, and cognitive theory, as most people know it — cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT. And in coaching CBC, which is cognitive behavioral coaching.

Debra Maldonado  00:57

And this is a part of our series on the psychology of life coaching. And I begged Rob to do this series, because when I was trained as a hypnotherapist, we kind of got a really quick overview of psychology, not that deep. And we learned— it was very technique focused. And when I met Rob, it was really— I mean, he has so much knowledge. I mean, you’re a psychologist. So the knowledge that is not out in the mainstream, that you can’t really see it, you know, out in the public, you’re not aware of, and I just had to think about psychology and the research. And so over the years, I’ve been picking Rob’s brain, for 15 years now— 17 years? And it’s all about this, you know, how does this fit into this model? And what are people doing when they’re saying this term? And what does this term mean? And I just think if you’re into personal development or a coach or some kind of service provider, and you want to do retreats help people grow, I think it’s really important for you to have some basic knowledge of psychology, which is not taught in a lot of trainings, it’s basically get more techniques. And so that’s what this is about — helping you understand what the heck you’re doing. Quick story about cognitive behavior. I didn’t even know what that was but I wrote a book called Let Love In, which was basically based on cognitive behavioral — you think, feel and act, you know, you change. And someone did a review on my book. And she said “This is a great overview of the cognitive behavioral theory.” And I said “Oh, I didn’t even know I was using that psychological theory.”

Robert Maldonado  02:49

That’s one of the hallmarks of the theory that it’s very practical. It’s essentially what your grandmother would tell you. You know, if you’re doing something wrong, don’t do that anymore.

Debra Maldonado  03:01

It kind of makes logical sense. It’s a very logical, reductionistic kind of model. And so it worked really well for me and helping me, you know, understand just the mechanisms of conditioning. But we’re going to talk about that today. And I just wanted to share that with you, it was so funny, I didn’t even know but then I noticed, you know, different teachers, a lot of people use that model — think positive, do a vision board. So let’s start with what it is before I get ahead of myself with my stories. How do you define it?

Robert Maldonado  03:36

Well, let’s review. So because we started with Freud, and started talking about psychodynamic models, which is really the hallmark of a good psychodynamic model in that it takes into account the unconscious mind, or the subconscious as sometimes called. And then we went into hypnosis, which are psychodynamic techniques, and meditation, visualization. But then we went to the opposite end of the spectrum with behaviorism, which really reduced behavior down to what’s observable.

Debra Maldonado  04:17

So externally.

Robert Maldonado  04:19

And for a long time, they were very dominant in American psychology. And they made everybody’s lives miserable because you couldn’t talk about thoughts, motivation, dreams, desires. It was all down to there’s a stimulus, something in the environment is stimulating you and what is the response that you give to that stimulation?

Debra Maldonado  04:44

Isn’t that the early psychology, the way they have worked with mentally ill people was very mechanical, like shocking them or putting them in, you know, frozen baths. Is that kind of that same thing, like if I put them in a different environment to behave, you know, something’s going to change.

Robert Maldonado  05:03

I think that was before even Freud where people were just trying all kinds of things.

Debra Maldonado  05:10

Measuring their head, that maybe their skull is a certain size.

Robert Maldonado  05:14

Dunking them in cold water and stuff. But so there was a problem with that model of stimulus response because there wasn’t anything in the middle, meaning what’s going on in your head. And we all know, just intuitively, we’re thinking through stuff, right? It makes us feel a certain way. And then we will respond. So that middle piece, right, there’s a stimulus, there’s an internal reaction, a process, a mental process, then we emit the behavior.

Debra Maldonado  05:55

So it’s before they we took out the cognitive part, that the person isn’t thinking or feeling. They’re just behaving. And now we add the cognitive behavior, which is that your thoughts and feelings create your behavior. And a lot of people, an ordinary human being, we were not taught to think about or notice our thoughts, even growing up in school. It’s all about behavior, about changing. You know, what you do, study and thinking is more of memorizing versus inquiring. Feelings weren’t really talked about in school. So we really do think that everything that we get in life is luck or maybe there’s a spiritual answer to why bad things happen to good people. And so we don’t realize how the thinking involves. And when I was about, I think, 24, someone gave me the book “You Can Heal Your Life”. And the woman, the first thing she said is “Your thoughts create your life.” And I said “Oh, I thought God created my life.” Like, I had no idea that my thoughts had any power. And so that’s really based on the theory that your thoughts can create your life, that your thoughts lead to feeling. And then the feeling leads to an action.

Robert Maldonado  07:19

Yeah, I mean, in its simplest form you can think in those terms, that cognitive behavioral theory is talking about your thoughts, your feelings, and the behaviors, and how they all interact or interlock.

Debra Maldonado  07:38

And they talk about core beliefs.

Robert Maldonado  07:41

Yes, the idea of core beliefs that many people are familiar with from different coaches comes from the cognitive behavioral theory.

Debra Maldonado  07:53

And a core belief is this kind of belief about yourself that basically dictates how you think and act and the things you get in life. So if you have the thought or the belief that I’m not good enough, your feelings will be probably fear and anxiety. Because if you think that that would be very uncomfortable, that you’re not good enough, and then your behavior will be dictated by that idea. Which means that if you don’t feel you’re good enough, you might not take any action, you might not risk anything. Or if you do risk something and some mistake happens, you say “It’s because I’m not good enough.” You really kind of blame yourself a lot. And so that inner narrative and that self-blaming, and so you see a lot of people are inconfident, and they don’t believe in themselves. And so this work is really great to kind of understand their identity and what thoughts are like running their life, but not from a personality, but more from just who they think they are, like the labels that we put on ourselves.

Robert Maldonado  09:04

Well, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy, especially, is very prevalent now. Most schools, that’s what they focus on. So most of you guys who are thinking about going to a master’s program or a PhD in psychology, that’s probably what they’re going to teach you. 90% of the schools out there are teaching cognitive behavioral theory in some form or another. And it’s very prevalent because it’s very practical. It’s well researched. There’s a lot of good data that shows that it works for anxiety disorders, it works for depression. It works for phobias really well, some personality disorders. And so it’s a good model for kind of quick fixes that focuses on solving the problem, reducing symptoms and getting the client out the door.

Debra Maldonado  10:10

When I was a hypnotherapist I did a lot of programming the mind to think more positive, and they had change in their life. I mean, it’s very well researched that if you believe in yourself you’re going to create more in your life. If you think that when you don’t, it’s better to think positive and not think positive, and have a positive self-regard versus a negative. I noticed that just doing the work, people attracted different types of men in their life. Like, that’s how I started out doing like the love. And that’s what my book, Let Love In, is about if you think good about yourself and you don’t think you’re not good enough, you’re going to meet people and your relationships are going to reflect that. So it was very helpful to get results. But again, it has kind of a short-term game, because you’re just kind of working on a symptom of a thought in your life but not really making a real transformation. You’re just kind of working with, like you said, like an information, you’re processing information differently.

Robert Maldonado  11:11

Yeah, and in all fairness, Aaron Beck, who’s really one of the main developers of cognitive behavioral therapy and CBC as well. His aim was precisely that, to give people a quick way to deal with their problems. And it wasn’t about transformation. Yeah, it wasn’t like the Jungian ideal of—

Debra Maldonado  11:39

— self-actualization?

Robert Maldonado  11:40

Yeah. And real personal transformation. His task was “Can we help people get over their depression and get over their anxiety, so they can go back to work?” So in that sense, it works really well.

Debra Maldonado  11:54

And so people who do cognitive behavioral coaches and therapists, affirmations, vision boards, putting that vision up there, visualization, that works really well for hypnotherapy, because you’re just changing those negative thoughts to positive and you’re learning self-talk, you know. Some people think of self-talk, instead of just reprogramming. And just like watching your mind and watching your self-talk and improving that line of basic. Every personal development class you probably have ever been in talks about what’s the conversation you’re having with yourself, and it’s very powerful, because I know, for me, if I feel something, I could switch my thinking, and the results will change pretty quickly, you know, my day will change just by shifting my attitude. But it’s not going to—, the mind is always so hard to tame. So it’s something we have to manage all the time. And if you’re just relying on that information processor for life, it can be a lot of work to keep that up.

Robert Maldonado  12:59

Yeah. Another thing I wanted to mention is this is not new. In the West, we, you know, like to take credit for stuff that’s been around for thousands of years. If you look at some of the early Buddhist texts, the Buddha himself says, and I’m going to slaughter the quote, but something like this. He says “The untrained mind will hurt you more than your worst enemy.” Because your thoughts create your life essentially. And if you don’t work with them, you’re letting your mind kind of go on autopilot, on those automatic thoughts, those reactions to the environment. And most of the time, it’s a disaster.

Debra Maldonado  13:48

So we do think it’s so important. Well, tell me about this whole cognitive revolution.

Robert Maldonado  13:55

Yeah, so in the West, starting after people kind of were able to overthrow the tyranny of the behaviorist who insisted on only measurable behavior and not looking at what’s going on in the brain and the mind. This idea of the mind being an information processing apparatus and really one of the most complex instruments that we know of billions of neurons communicating with each other, processing information, visual sensory information, putting it all together into memory, logic, reason, and then directing it in certain ways, incredible insight into how the mind works. It just revolutionized the way we thought about psychology, the mind, the brain, and there were and there are very good correlates as to how the brain is processing this information, how we’re creating this reality, this sense of the world and ourselves. You can actually see it on the functional MRIs, where different parts of the brain are doing different things. And it correlates with what people report, right? If they’re working on a math problem, certain parts of the brain will light up, or they’re working on a word problem, etc, etc.

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Robert Maldonado  16:19

So very powerful, strong correlations with the nervous system, as well as social interaction, social learning.

Debra Maldonado  16:29

So neuropsychology, neuroscience, epigenetics, people talk a lot about these ideas. And so what is your take on? You know, we’re always seeing people say that they’re using epigenetics and neuro-nonsense or neuroscience to change the brain so you can make more money or so you can find love or so you can have better health. What is your take on that as far as what we know about the brain right now and the research? I think some people take leaps into what we know about the brain.

Robert Maldonado  17:10

Yeah, precisely. I mean, what we see out there is that this information leaks out through news stories, popular magazines talk about, you know, “We found the gene for a certain part of the behavior.” I remember back a few years ago, the gene for alcoholism was the big thing. It doesn’t work that way. It’s a lot more complicated. Genes have the all these interactions with the environment and with each other, and it’s not a “one gene controls everything.” But in general, what we see is a lot of people take liberty with these new stories. Certainly neuroplasticity is an important discovery of the cognitive revolution, that the brain is very malleable and can adapt and is designed to be adaptive to the environment.

Debra Maldonado  18:15

How much can you control that?

Robert Maldonado  18:18

Yeah, exactly. Some people might claim, for example, okay, because of neuroplasticity, our program is going to teach you how to make more money or how to be a better person. It’s not quite that precise. Neuroplasticity simply means that, yes, the brain is able to adapt and learn and change.

Debra Maldonado  18:42

And you’re experiencing neuroplasticity just listening to this video.

Robert Maldonado  18:48

Anytime you learn and you’re experiencing something new, your brain is reorganizing itself. So it’s not a lie that it’s rewiring itself. But that somebody is able to rewire your brain or help you rewire your brain in a specific way, I would say that’s an over-promising something based on kind of pseudo scientific—

Debra Maldonado  19:17

Because people want that quick fix. So now, I think we were talking earlier about this, and I think that one of the things I want to mention about this, like the Eastern philosophy of the mind, brought cognitive— this idea of the thoughts create your life. But now the cognitive revolution. Also, we think about the internet and the development of the internet. It’s kind of like that network that’s in our brain, that makes associations is now becoming this huge, collective experience we’re all having now since the 90s. When it started really becoming popular, the internet, having home computers and being able to dial up with your AOL dial up, those of you who are old enough to remember that. And now we have social media. And so a lot of those social media companies are using these cognitive theories to help you stay, get in patterns, react a certain way. And then the experience of that collective web that we’re having is sort of like we made something that’s like us, that has all these connections.

Robert Maldonado  20:25

You know, something incredible happened when people started creating computers. They noticed that that’s kind of how part of our brain works. You know, we process information very similar to the way computers process information. And then it computes and spits out the answer, kind of the results. We noticed also, when we tried to make robots, artificial intelligence, how complicated the mind — brain — is, because, you know, we can do incredible stuff, like pick up this glass. To us, it’s nothing. But if you try to get a machine to do that, you see that it involves an incredible amount of processing, calculation, computing just to get machine to learn something very simple. So it kind of gave us some insight into how machines can learn. And we started creating these artificial intelligent machines. Now it’s called machine learning, and artificial intelligence is about to hit the world big time.

Debra Maldonado  21:51

Well, it has already impacted.

Robert Maldonado  21:53

Oh, yeah, but nothing like it’s going to be in, let’s say, 5-10 years.

Debra Maldonado  21:58

Terminator.

Robert Maldonado  22:00

You know, I’m more optimistic actually. I think it’s like everything else. It’s a balance, we’re going to get some great stuff, but also some problems.

Debra Maldonado  22:09

So how does this related to cognitive bias?

Robert Maldonado  22:12

Yeah, so cognitive theory then, because it goes into the development of smart machines, it also goes into the development of the algorithms on the internet. And this works very similar to the way our brain works. So we know in our brains, we tend to notice things in the environment that match our expectations. So we’re already kind of geared to perceiving the world the way we expect to perceive it.

Debra Maldonado  22:47

But going back to my earlier example of not good enough, if you feel not good enough, you’re gonna go online, maybe you’re trying to start a business or you’re trying to get ahead in life, and you’re going to see all the people that are doing better than you, and you’re going to be triggered by that experience. Or you’re going to post something and no one likes it because it’s not smart enough, it’s not good enough, or you make a comment that you feel is smart, and people tear you down. And it’s like that kind of personal experience out there is just coming from you. We think “Oh, that’s a mean person” or “This thing keeps happening. The world is so terrible.” But it’s your perception that’s actually connecting. And now social media, they have all that research and how they know everything about you now, really kind of using that bias to feed you ads, feed you post.

Robert Maldonado  23:44

Right. But see, this is where all the conspiracy theories come in. People think there’s somebody manipulating that, but it’s not that, it’s simply the way our mind works. And therefore we put it into everything we create. So the amplification of our mind through the construction of the internet, which is a worldwide nervous system.

Debra Maldonado  24:09

And it’s an extension of us. It’s not like a machine that we’re separate from, it’s actually an expression of our consciousness.

Robert Maldonado  24:15

Yes, but there’s nobody pulling the levers and trying to manipulate you. It’s simply that that’s the way we think. And therefore we create things that think like us. And the way we think, again, is that self confirmation bias that we tend to see repeatedly through the internet, the things that we believe, that reinforce our beliefs. So if you’re not conscious of that, you feel like you’re being manipulated. But it’s your own mind essentially.

Debra Maldonado  24:51

A fine example is I used to do a lot of love coaching, and I would watch the client who would say there aren’t any good guys out there. Every time I go online, they’re all losers, these guys don’t have any jobs, they’re this and that. And we’re always saying that’s where you’re, that’s your mind you’re seeing. And I think, understanding that we’re seeing a reflection of our mind. And I love that cognitive behavioral theory really made that leap from behaviorism to including the mind and the thinking to our experience in life. It was a huge leap. And we’re still trying to catch up to it. I think a lot of people are still trying to catch up to the idea that their thoughts do have power and that they— not power like in the way they make it seem like there’s energy going out there and it’s pulling back. It’s more the way you’re perceiving consciousness. It’s almost like a filter of how you see, what you see in the outer world.

Robert Maldonado  25:55

Yeah. So if we think in terms of coaching, then how is neuroscience going to impact coaching? Well, it’s going to give us more information about the mind-body and how it works, and how we can help people through coaching, instead of waiting for them to need therapy when they’re depressed or anxious. Everyone will have access to this information through coaching. As far as the computers or artificial intelligence, we might be able to create machines that can counsel us, can give us feedback as to how we’re feeling.

Debra Maldonado  26:35

More like Alexa. Alexa, how am I feeling today?

Robert Maldonado  26:38

Yeah, I mean, it’s coming up, and people are working on these things already. And then the internet, the beautiful thing about the internet is yes, it creates a lot of problems because of the social disruption but it also allows us to communicate with people, different parts of the world, different distances that before was almost impossible. Now we can coach people anywhere on the planet from the comfort of our home. And so let’s talk about the strengths and weaknesses of the cognitive theory.

Debra Maldonado  27:15

Well, one thing I think is a strength is that it’s easily adaptable in any situation. So I see people use it in therapy, but also see people use it in coaching. It’s something that’s easily understandable. Oh, your thoughts create your life. You don’t have to do a lot of psychological study to understand that, that’s a simple thing. It’s very mechanical, and easy to teach. So I think that’s why it’s the main part of personal development and everything you see, is that because it is really basic information processing. But the cool thing is that it doesn’t have to stop there, you we can incorporate other things. So it’s adaptable. It really is like we talk about our program, we have a philosophy, the Jungian psychology and the mindset — I see the cognitive more like the mindset, you know, that tip when people talk about mindset and kind of what you’re thinking. And then also on the surface, it’s not really going into the unconscious.

Robert Maldonado  28:18

And people are beginning to combine it with mindfulness, meta consciousness, or meta awareness, those kind of practices, which are very powerful. And so it’s a way of working with their mind in a very practical way that almost anyone can learn.

Debra Maldonado  28:36

And it’s quick, you know, you could see a shift happen immediately for a short term with the program, with a cognitive behavioral system. And so you get that immediate payoff of “Oh, I feel like I’m getting different results.” And you can turn things around pretty quickly. Especially like money or thinking about love, or all these simple things in life, changing our day and our attitude, we just shift our thinking, our feeling, and you’ll see the day play out differently.

Robert Maldonado  29:08

So what are the shortcomings from your perspective?

Debra Maldonado  29:13

Well, I think the main one for me is that I did it for years as a hypnotherapist but I always felt like it wasn’t enough, I wasn’t really digging into the unconscious in a deep way. When I got into Jungian coaching, I really understood Jungian psychology goes into that deeper level. It really is about making the ego better. It’s an ego level personality, like I’m good enough. And so instead of “I’m not good enough” — “I am good enough”, but the “I” is still there. You’re still dealing with a non-spiritual aspect of yourself. It’s not very spiritual, it’s more how does this machine in my head function and move through life? And you know, if that’s what you want, if you’re not spiritual, and you don’t want to know what your soul wants and what’s more creative exploration of your life and consciousness, cognitive behavioral is perfect, but I think if you are spiritual, it doesn’t go deep enough, it doesn’t really, truly fulfill you. And so a lot of people that come to us, they’ll say “Oh, yeah, I did a lot of personal growth, I’ve done so much work on myself.” But I always call it rearranging the furniture, you’re just making this I a little better. But what if the I isn’t really you, it’s just false sense of you, that you’re just shining up. And it’s more based on survival and getting through the day and getting some goodies in your life versus really asking yourself, what’s my true meaning and spiritual? What about you?

Robert Maldonado  30:43

Yeah, I would agree with that. I used to fall asleep in the cognitive behavioral piece. Because I have that bias that I am more of a psychodynamic person, I like to go deeper and explore more consciousness. One of the biggest failings that I saw is that it assumes human beings are rational. And we like to think of ourselves as rational beings. But in reality, if you look at how we make decisions and how we act towards each other—

Debra Maldonado  31:21

Why are you looking at me, I’m not rational.

Robert Maldonado  31:23

Because you’re right here. If you look at the way we interact socially and especially in nature, we’re not rational at all. We make decisions based on primal conditioning, or conditioned patterns, the environment kind of shapes our behavior. And when, let’s say when people believe they are their brain, their information processing apparatus, then they’re acting very shallow in a sense, because it’s all about fitting in to the group and how you’re being perceived by others.

Debra Maldonado  32:14

So in other words, are you suggesting that this model is helping you conform more to the social expectations of the world versus individuating?

Robert Maldonado  32:26

That’s right.

Debra Maldonado  32:27

So you’re building— I want to think positive, so I can make money, so then the society accepts me. Or I want to think positive, so I could find love or get pregnant or, you know, get over my divorce, so I look good, you know, to others, and I’m acceptable, and I see myself as a worthwhile human being and accepted by the group.

Robert Maldonado  32:51

Yeah. And then if we look at the philosophy and knowledge that comes from Vedic consciousness studies and understanding of awareness and consciousness, where the cognitive behavioral model is only working on the conceptual mind, which is the ego, which is this problem solving apparatus — very complicated, very refined by evolution to work really well in survival. But it’s not addressing imagination, creativity, freedom, all the things that really transcend that conceptual line.

Debra Maldonado  33:39

It doesn’t ask “Who am I?” on a soul level. And for me, I mean, as a hypnotherapist I did some spiritual kind of work, like their past life regressions and having them interact with their higher self. But it wasn’t really a system that I could really use to help them change, it really came down to just “think positive now”, and I use those as tools for them to increase the positive thinking, having a deity or an image for them to hold on to and have hope and faith. And those things are powerful. But it doesn’t help the person long term because they’re just kind of on the surface. And I remember when I shifted to coaching and started working with you and doing Jungian coaching, I realized that this is for people that really love to explore their own self, not just someone who’s just looking for a quick fix. It’s someone who wants to be more empowered in their life, in every aspect of their life, and want to really have more meaning in it. It’s not just about building up that ego so you can impress others but it’s about knowing on a deep level who you are, so you don’t need to impress others, that the only person you need to impress is yourself. And that’s really where freedom happens. Because I think we’re all conditioned. I mean cognitive behavioral comes from the assumption that you’re conditioned to think a certain way and act a certain way. And that changing your thinking will change that trajectory of the schemas, they call it, right? The patterns of being, the patterns of the way we see things. But there’s more to us than just our patterns, we’re not just our patterns.

Robert Maldonado  35:19

Yeah. So I would say overall, it’s a very useful tool, especially when combined with deeper processes like mindfulness, or meta consciousness, metacognition. And just like in Buddhism, when it’s combined with deeper inquiries into what is the nature of the mind and consciousness, then cognitive behaviorism could be a very powerful tool to have in working with the mind. But it in and of itself, like the show we saw recently, In And Of Itself, it doesn’t address the whole person, the integral being that we are.

Debra Maldonado  36:10

And it also sees the person as the thoughts and the psyche as a fixed, robotic kind of image versus Jung said the psyche is alive. And so cognitive behavioral gives all the power to the conscious mind, you know, to direct your life. And in Jungian psychology, which is what we teach, it helps you get deeper into the creative aspect of your deeper self that’s actually working. So it’s more than just the thinking and the stories, but this whole other realm of who you are and understanding that you’re more than just that little social constructed persona and name based on all the experience you had before, you’re much more, you’re eternal, you’re an eternal soul with lots of access to wisdom and knowledge that’s right within you. So we love the cognitive behavioral theory, it brought in the mind into psychology, and got it out of just the pure behaviorism. But we also think that, you know, with every psychology we need to keep— it’s a science, and science doesn’t mean that things are fixed and absolute. Science actually means that it’s a theory that we test out and then improves over time. So as we started out in the world of understanding philosophy and psychology back with the Greeks, talking about why man does what he does, was written in the Bible, in the early texts. A religious text is really trying to understand the human being and why we do bad things and how to do good things, and what’s the theory behind it. We evolved into modern psychology, and now modern psychology’s only been around for less than 150 years. So we’re really kind of still in the beginning stages of understanding these deeper levels of the psyche and who we are as divine beings.

Robert Maldonado  38:06

Very much so, and the next 20 years are going to be mind-blowing because of artificial intelligence and the combination of genetics and epigenetics, and the internet, of course, which is going to allow us to do all kinds of incredible things in coaching.

Debra Maldonado  38:28

So in closing, we love it but it’s not enough. I guess that would be our assessment of it. It’s a great tool to know, every coach should know this because even when you work on those deep levels, you need to kind of put the action out in the world. How does the client integrate that? And they integrate it through the mindset, they integrate it to shifting the thinking that the deeper self is creating, and it’s more than just the pattern of programs. Here’s a great way to see it as the cognitive behavioral doesn’t change, the person just changes the thoughts and psychodynamic theory. And Jungian theory actually helps someone not only changing what you think but who the thinker is, who you really are. So the static thinker and just change the thought, or the person becoming someone. And I think that is a deeper way. Because if you think about it, if you’re thinking on the ego level and having to reprogram yourself, that’s exhausting. But what if you just stop believing you are that person that thinks that way? And how would I think if I knew that I was immortal, and I was powerful, and I was embodying these other aspects of myself in deeper ways? We wouldn’t have to train our mind, and we just automatically shift. So we’re kind of going to the root versus just working on trimming the trees on the surface. Good metaphor?

Robert Maldonado  40:02

Well said. Good metaphor.

Debra Maldonado  40:04

Well, thank you everyone for joining us. Next week I believe we’re going to talk about Jungian psychology and coaching. So we’re going to go deeper into that. We hope you enjoyed this wonderful broadcast and we’ll see you next week. 

Robert Maldonado  40:21 

Stay well. 

Debra Maldonado  40:22 

Take care. Bye bye. 

OUTRO  40:25 

Thank you for joining us. And don’t forget to subscribe to Creative Minds Soul Sessions and join us next week as we explore another deep topic where you can consciously create your life with Creative Mind Soul Session. See you next time.