How Your DNA Shapes Your Personality

Episode Transcript

Debra (00:01.186)

Hello everyone, welcome back to Jung On Purpose. I am Debra Maldonado.

Dr. Rob (00:06.193)

And I’m Dr. Rob, welcome to the program.

Debra (00:08.616)

we’re with Creative Mind and we are bringing you the best of Jungian psychology, Eastern spirituality, and a little bit of neuroscience for your own personal development. And if you are looking to help others, we welcome you into our podcast. We are going to start a new series. And this series is about how we basically create our patterns early in life. It’s not a surprise that everyone has early childhood patterns.

hear that all the time. It’s all over the pop psychology. Everyone knows this therapy is based on it. So we’re going to go deep with this and a little deeper than you might expect. And before we begin our first topic, we’re going to talk about genetics and we’re going to talk about how we, what we inherit originally from our genetics before all the childhood experiences happen and how it works and

Dr. Rob (00:49.323)

Mmm.

Debra (01:07.01)

Rob’s gonna really share his expertise in genetics. But before we begin and dive in, I do wanna remind you to subscribe to our channel if you’re watching us on YouTube. If you are listening to us on one of the podcast services, it does us great help to reach more people if you subscribe to our podcast, we really appreciate it. And again, anytime you have questions, you can always reach out to us on our website, creatomindlife.com, or post a comment on YouTube and we check them all the time. So Rob.

What is the core idea of this podcast today about inheritance and genetic inheritance? And why are you the expert to help us understand that?

Dr. Rob (01:43.614)

Yes

Yeah, that’s a good question. Well, the general field, let’s say of psychology, part of it, depending on what you specialize in, what you’re trained in, part of it includes genetics or basic, at least a basic understanding of genetics. Because there’s actually now a subfield called behavioral genetics, which means

they’re looking at how do our genes influence our behavior in health and disorder. So part of my training was in early childhood development and the problems that arise in early childhood development. Therefore, I had to understand at least the basics of genetics, what goes wrong.

And this is an interesting phenomenon in science that when you understand what goes wrong, it gives you lot of information of what is the phenomena supposed to be and how does it work naturally. So for example, in we didn’t understand a lot about eye contact and basic human communication, nonverbal communication until

we started to see kids that lacked those things, that lacked appropriate or typical eye contact.

Dr. Rob (03:24.585)

That said a lot about what a natural or the typical development is about, right? It’s about developing these skills to look at other people’s faces, their eyes, read what they’re thinking. This is called theory of mind. kind of, when we look at somebody’s face, we kind of read their mind. We think, right, that

Debra (03:52.246)

Make assumptions, right?

Dr. Rob (03:53.351)

Yeah, that I understand what they’re thinking and what they’re looking at and what’s going on with them. And that just happens automatically. We start when we’re babies.

Debra (04:03.59)

That also would be facial recognition, I would think would be the first thing that a baby sees. You’ve showed me many videos over the years where the mother changed faces and then you had worked a lot in the field of autism, way in the beginning, helping diagnose kids with autism on the spectrum. Neurodivergent, I guess, would be the appropriate term now. And one thing I learned from you, from a layperson’s perspective,

is how much impact these little subtleties that we take for granted. And that’s why facial expressions, the kids who have autism in some cases can’t read faces in a way or recognize faces. There’s something with that that we have as part of our brain as a normal person. when we didn’t have language, I guess back in the cave stages, we…

facial expressions were the way we communicated many times.

Dr. Rob (05:03.946)

Yeah, there’s some of that. But there is also the flip side that maybe these kids are not interested in what the face is communicating.

Debra (05:17.804)

that actually, right, a typical person would make an assumption based on what they see as normal. And that’s this idea of normality really comes into play, like what is normal, and what is not normal, and that we should stop thinking of people that way that we’re all unique in different ways. Maybe you’re more like the main group than the other, but doesn’t mean it’s not normal, like a normal human functioning. It’s just a different way of functioning.

Dr. Rob (05:41.182)

Yeah, the word normal is not used that as much and now it’s typical, meaning most people, you know, are due with this.

Debra (05:47.693)

Yeah, typical. Typical sounds a little more PC. Yeah. So, so yeah, so you notice these missing pieces in social interactions. And then you were they were able to identify like what genes like a genetic component to what those genes did.

Dr. Rob (06:07.594)

Well, let’s back up a little bit. The gene question that comes in in a bigger model, when I was training, it was called the biopsychosocial model, meaning you’re considering the biology as much as you can and trying to see how much does it play into the presentation, the current presentation. You’re also looking at the psychology, meaning what’s this

person’s environment and what have they learned, how are they taught, how much attention do they receive from parents and what kind of attention and so forth. So that’s the social aspect or the psychological aspect. And then the social aspect is what kind of support systems do they have? Do they have funds to address their special needs or are they struggling, those kind of things? All those play in

Debra (07:03.886)

Well, also the parents, right? If they support the child’s diagnosis too, or the child’s needs, some cultures don’t accept that any kind of label. And so they deny it and they think, the doctors don’t know anything. My son or daughter is normal or typical, and they’re not going to seek treatment. I mean, even back in the day, I had a aunt who was mentally ill, mentally…

Dr. Rob (07:13.61)

That’s true.

Debra (07:32.483)

challenged and they, her mother didn’t put it, my grandmother didn’t put her in school. It’s like, that’s just what they did. So I wonder if she had school and a social structure and learning what, how she could have developed differently. So, so that’s where you’re saying it’s like not just genetics, not just your parents, but also the social structure at large and how that works. Yeah.

Dr. Rob (07:58.741)

Yeah, so let’s look at just pure genetics. Again, the biological aspect of it. And we know genes are like the primary way we get here. Half of our genes come from our mothers and half from our fathers. And together, you know, voila, we’re in the world all of a sudden. So what is it that we inherit?

Debra (08:02.542)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Debra (08:24.088)

But also too genetically, yeah, like, but we had that initial father, but I don’t know if this is premature, but we’re also have every DNA from every genetically from every human being, you know, we’re genetic, right? Pretty much like we have these core human patterns that are transpersonal.

Dr. Rob (08:47.27)

Yeah, I mean, the genetic science as a field is just fascinating. Darwin’s idea of evolution really evolved through kind of inheritance understanding, right? That was his main question, like how do species evolve and grow and adapt?

That’s still considered one of the best ideas any human being ever had. Like hands down, it’s considered like, wow, is that some powerful thinking there by a human being and, you know, just using their mind to figure things out. That’s still way up there, right? No, but for us as coaches,

This information is helpful because if we’re talking about motivation, if we’re talking about conditioning, pattern disruption, let’s say, or change, optimal performance, right? How can we get the brain and the mind body to perform optimally? All those questions have to do with genetics. I mean, if you don’t see the connection, you’re missing a big chunk of information here.

And there’s more and more information coming by the day now because of AI. AI is helping scientists that study genetics figure out a lot more about how these proteins are built and reproduced and constructed and so forth.

Debra (10:28.654)

Well, can I just say that when you first told me this, I was surprised because I thought, and I think maybe a lot of people may think this too, maybe I’m just the only one who thought this, but I thought genetics were more, am I going to have brown hair, eye color? Do I, have, you know, you know, they say the alcoholism is a gene or a smoker, you know, addictive personality, but mostly genetic predisposition to cancer and things like that, physical stuff.

Dr. Rob (10:42.952)

Hmm.

Debra (10:57.942)

you know, and I never realized you told me this the first time I’ve heard it was from you, is that our personality is there’s genetic aspects to our personality that we’re born with. So my question is, well, we’re going to talk about this today. But my big question is, I think we should answer today is, are we stuck with our DNA inheritance? Or is there a way to change it or transcend it? And the kind of the myths out there of how that could happen, like there’s a camp that’s like,

This is your DNA makeup and this is who you are and let’s cope with it. And then these other ones that are taking DNA epigenetics and taking FAR claims, you know, like you could change your genetics overnight or let me get into your DNA and edit it, that kind of stuff. So we’re gonna kind of go see both camps. But the question is, can we, if we’re born with…

genes that aren’t optimal for success or optimal for being having a thin body or optimal for having, you know, friends and good relationships? Are we doomed? What’s answer, Rob?

Dr. Rob (12:06.102)

I’m glad you asked. I took some notes and I wrote down some notes so that I get it right because this is a big, these are big ideas, let’s say, and we want to communicate as clearly as possible to people that are interested, right, and especially coaches that could possibly use this information. So the strongest overall frame right now in genetics and understanding

Debra (12:10.734)

Okay.

Dr. Rob (12:34.59)

the genetics of what builds up well, what builds us as human beings, right? Personality and behavior are not simply inherited. So personality and behavior is not simply inherited, meaning that you’re not destined to be a certain way just by through your inheritance, right? your mom and dad, let’s say.

Debra (12:59.928)

through DNA.

Dr. Rob (13:04.116)

These qualities, these things, these phenomena that we call behavior and personality, they emerge from ongoing and in continuous interaction among genes, brain development, which means nutrition, oxygen level, education, caregiving, how much attention?

Are your parents or your sitters paying to you? Stress levels? Are you under stress? chemically, socially, financially, culture and family patterns? Yeah, so all these

Debra (13:50.089)

there’s this myth that you could find the one cause for a pattern in your life. Like, I got to get to the original cause. Yeah, everyone’s trying to look for that. I know when I was a hypnotherapist, it was like regress them back to the original sensitizing event. But what you’re saying is that there is no original, maybe the original event is you’re born or the cells, you got your father sells a sperm and egg. That’s the original part. And do you want to go back to birth and

But we try to go in the past and try to figure out what’s the source of our patterns. And so you’re saying that it’s really hard to pinpoint the source because of this.

Dr. Rob (14:27.946)

Yes, and in general, let’s reduce it down to in a more simple way. What we’re saying is that the gene interacts with the environment. The environment gives the gene feedback, and then the genes adjust or don’t adjust, right? Or they try to do their best. And it’s that interaction between gene and environment.

that gives us a better picture of where the science of genetics is at. It’s not just, it’s not simply saying, yeah, there’s a gene for alcoholism and you have that, therefore you’re gonna get it. No, it’s a gene environment interaction or whatever percentage that the geneticists or the doctors tell you you have of getting something. The environment is gonna play a big role in that.

Debra (15:02.958)

Well, look at Darwinian theory, right?

Dr. Rob (15:25.766)

And the more conscious you are of that, the more you can interact because you know what kills people most of us these days, they’re not germs, they’re not diseases like, you know, the plague or the the pandemic or anything like that. What kills us is lifestyle. What we eat, how we sleep, how we don’t sleep, whether we exercise or not. Lifestyle is essentially what.

Debra (15:53.934)

stress levels.

Dr. Rob (15:55.485)

It’s what does people in therefore, can you change lifestyle? Yeah, it’s the it’s the primary thing you can change. It’s it’s the one thing that you have control of. Yet most people feel helpless when they’re told, you have this problem and that problem. And, you know, they believe the statistics or whatever they tell them. And therefore they end up kind of going down that route. So yeah.

Debra (16:21.048)

So can I just ask, this is very important. The genetics interacting with the environment is basically the basis of Darwin’s work, is that the adaptation of the species based on what is needed. So even the different types of, I’m not an anthropologist, I don’t know the difference type of humanoid and all those levels of Neanderthal, but there was something that where,

the frontal lobe was developed in us. But also just different personality traits worked better with different tribes. And then the tribe had to have a mixture, I guess, of those traits because we needed someone to be sensitive that can be intuitive. We needed someone who was strong and had muscles so they can go out and hunt or fight and protect the ground. And we need a fertility. We needed creativity. We needed like a bunch of different, like as a tribe.

And so each of those kind of genetic developments happened to help the species survive. And because one person can’t have them all, right? So it’s kind of like a group culture and then the environment and then over time, millions of years of evolution, we are here.

Dr. Rob (17:33.77)

That’s right.

Dr. Rob (17:38.985)

Yes. So another note on what we inherit. We do not inherit a finished personality. We inherit biases, tendencies, sensitivities, and developmental probabilities. So we’re full of potential, but not all the potential is expressed.

because the environment doesn’t always support everything we’re able to do. And so we’re always looking at that interaction now. Again, that’s the right understanding of genetics, that our genetics is interacting, all these kind of tendencies and biases and sensitivities that we’re born with.

They’re interacting with the environment, culture, environment, environmental health or lack of, and giving us the results that we get. So it’s that interaction between the two.

Debra (18:51.448)

So is this something that’s happening throughout our life? Or are there certain, like maybe we always talk about early childhood. could you talk about stages, life stages, and why the early childhood seems to be the most, like the formation of our core patterns in our life?

Dr. Rob (18:57.546)

you

Dr. Rob (19:10.664)

Yeah, that that whole field, I mean, is just, it’s so new, relatively new. But there’s so much information coming now about brain development, because that’s really what we’re talking about. Are there sensitive periods in brain development, especially in the first nine, 10 years? Yes.

There are sensitive periods. They used to be called critical periods because people saw them as that, that if you miss a window of opportunity, let’s say to get language in there, to teach a child language, if you miss that window, that child may never catch up. It’s that.

Debra (19:59.917)

And you see those feral children they find that have been abused or neglected children that never were cultivated and then they missed that window. And so to get them to a typical functioning is really hard. And it’s not because the genetics weren’t there, but because the environment was not conducive. So it’s like a play of both.

Dr. Rob (20:22.73)

That’s right. So the sensitive periods are early on, they’re really critical. They’re critical because they only allow a certain window for you to acquire language, social skills, intelligence, all these sensitivities and abilities that we have. Early on, the brain is…

is producing and overproducing neuronal connections to allow you to express your full potential. Then it starts to prune away as you start to get more specialized, as you start to grow up after 10 years old, you start to develop your own kind of personality and your interests, right? And so the brain starts to prune away the connections that you don’t need very much like a gardener trimming.

the trees that are overgrown and saying, let’s just keep the ones that look good and, you know, line the streets and.

Debra (21:29.602)

Or we’re using this one, let’s keep using it. This one we’re not using, so let’s save energy. So let me ask you a question. And I know this is pretty common knowledge, but we get a mixture of our mother and father. So each sibling, so I have three siblings, each of us have a different variation. We don’t have the exact DNA. Unless we’re identical twins, we wouldn’t have the exact DNA. We would have a mixture. So if we’re all brought up in the same environment,

We all have a different experience. Well, we have different experiences. And then that also forms. So what if we all had the same kind of tendency? if there’s anxiety, let’s say there, there’s a tendency to have panic attacks and anxiety that’s been passed down from like generation to generation, we see the lineage. Everyone has a tendency. So you’re saying that really there’s a sense of the

like, we’re almost like looking for it to activate. And then how we personally respond is different for everyone. So if you’re the oldest child, you might respond to anxiety in a very different way than the youngest child. And then if you are the oldest child, your parents might have been more stressed as young parents versus when they had you at late 30s. And they kind of are finance more financially said, or they’re kind of have a groove and they’re not struggling or events happen in the

different timelines of your childhood, of the family life could affect that. it’s like, that’s where there’s a lot of mixture. It’s not even if we had the same like genetic code for every sibling shared it, even the environment will change the experience.

Dr. Rob (23:15.114)

Yes. And that’s what saves us basically, because if we all inherited the same level of anxiety, let’s say it runs in the family, then we’d all be in trouble, right? Because we’d have a very anxious group of people kind of reinforcing their anxieties. But it’s like this. This is a simple model.

Debra (23:25.102)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rob (23:44.329)

You have a predisposition, let’s say both parents are anxious types or have a tendency to be anxious. So you inherit the genes for that. There’s nothing wrong with anxiety, you need it. We need anxiety to give us, it’s like the red light on the car, right? That when it goes off, that means you gotta check something.

Debra (24:12.556)

It’s almost like we all have the gene for anxiety and then it’s like you had talked about their ranges. Like we have a spectrum. Could you talk about that a little bit? I’ve never heard of that. If you can, explain it in a short time.

Dr. Rob (24:18.814)

Yeah, it’s more like a spectrum.

Dr. Rob (24:24.178)

Yeah, so well, because if we evolved in the jungle, we needed to when we heard rustling in the in the woods or in the leaves, right? We needed to think that could be a bear or a mountain lion. I better check it out. I better be ready to run or fight or freeze or something hide. If that anxiety wasn’t there, we would be too careless and

We wouldn’t survive. We’d get eaten up. Yeah.

Debra (24:56.108)

And there’s people that are missing that fear gene that I remember seeing a documentary where a woman wasn’t afraid of people. And she was married and she would be just go to a bar and just go home with another person like she had no fear to stop her from being with a stranger and the husband would always have to kind of take her home. Yeah. Maybe I’m going to that’s fun. Interesting.

Dr. Rob (25:11.326)

No, it’s a little bit different. Yeah. But the basic model is that we have this level of anxiety, let’s say. Part of it comes from the inheritance.

Debra (25:27.438)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rob (25:29.45)

But then we’re also observing and learning as children from our parents. There are role models in how do they manage stress? And now we have the genes from them and now we’re observing them manage stress in a particular way. In other words, they’re teaching us

Debra (25:36.13)

how they respond.

Dr. Rob (25:58.747)

do you respond to stress? So you’re not only getting the genetics, but you’re also getting the social learning aspect. As human beings, we do not have to experience something ourselves to learn it. So that if we see somebody touch something that is hot, and they, you know, pull their hand away, we understand just by observing that’s hot, I’m not going to touch that.

Debra (26:27.042)

So with mother, there’s a lot of stress in the household. Father’s screaming at the mother for some reason. And the mother, there’s a lot of anxiety fighting over bills or whatever. And the mother retreats. She goes to her room. The child learns, when it gets too crazy, you back down and run away versus, or if the mother fought and stood up for herself, it would be a completely different thing. you fight in that time. So there’s that kind of, learn those.

Dr. Rob (26:50.57)

Yeah.

Debra (26:54.434)

those adaptations through, we adapt through the experiences. And then also with our interaction with our parents, if we’re anxious, how do they treat our anxiety? You know, how they responded to our anxiety? Did they go like get scared? Like I hear some parents talk about like getting afraid of their child’s anxiety and wanting to fix the child and coddle the, like making it wrong. And then the child feels like anxiety is wrong, which actually makes her want to, the child want to push it away or not.

Dr. Rob (26:58.89)

to

Debra (27:24.312)

be scared of it as well. Would that be the case?

Dr. Rob (27:29.492)

That’s it. So we learn emotional styles from our parents. So because we have their genes in part, and then we’re observing them acted out, and we learn it. Now, it doesn’t mean we’re stuck there, of course, because let’s say our genetics is slightly different.

It’s not identical to theirs. And also then our reasoning is slightly different that we have access to teachers, we have access to friends, to relatives that handle anxiety in different ways. And we might say, but I learned it this other way from this other person and that makes sense.

Debra (28:15.982)

I like that one better. This fits me. And then also genetically, if you’re a parent and you don’t, like you have a genetic from your mother, genes around anxiety, and then the father is not connected that way. don’t know how genes work, but just assuming. And the father’s the one with the anxiety, it’s not the same. So, but when it’s the same, it’s almost like you’re, it’s a double whammy, because now you have the same genes that are responding.

So when we talk about all this, the temperament, like you say, emotional styles, these life experiences, we organize them very early, you’re saying, like our emotional intelligence is organized very early in life. Would you say before 10 or even younger, like would be for five? I know there’s some studies that it’s like before you’re three, that the most of our emotional template is already formed.

Dr. Rob (29:02.066)

Yeah, these are…

Dr. Rob (29:12.156)

Yeah, we’ve all seen those nature films, right? Where, let’s say a horse or a deer is born and within minutes they’re up and running or walking around, following the mom, the mom around, right? in a sense, we have some of that in our emotional brain, our emotional brain on day one, it’s ready to go. It’s like activated.

We look at faces, we start to bond with faces. We recognize our moms very early on. We can recognize faces from non-faces, in other words, from mixed up scramble. Yes, they do experiments where they put the eyes upside down and the mouth in different places, and the baby will not look at that as much as.

Debra (29:55.182)

The cartoons are…

Debra (30:01.902)

Ow.

Debra (30:06.124)

Is that why little kids are afraid of monsters in a way? Because they’re not like, they’re unknown stuff.

Dr. Rob (30:10.438)

It could be. We’re organized, our brain is looking for symmetry, balance, and so we’re kind of geared towards certain beautiful things, things that are…

Debra (30:19.63)

Mm-hmm.

Debra (30:28.118)

And then also emotional, good emotions. So if a parent is anxious all the time, trying to hold the baby and having three other kids running around and the mother, it doesn’t intend to be anxious around the baby or feed that baby anxiety, but the baby absorbs that in a way they think life is stressful, even from a very early age. It’s chaotic.

Dr. Rob (30:46.74)

Yes.

Yeah, so that’s another point about the emotional system because it’s ready to go on day one. We’re absorbing a lot of information from our parents. Unconsciously. We don’t even remember exactly what was going on when we were, let’s say from birth to three or four. Most of us don’t have any memories or just very few memories here and there. But what was going on emotionally?

And the family was impacting us really powerfully because we were like a little sponge absorbing everything. There was a lot of anxiety, fighting, or a lot of harmony and love. We were just absorbing all that. And our brain was saying, this is the kind of world you’re being born into. You better be ready to face this.

Debra (31:43.257)

So let me ask you this because I have lots of friends. never had kids, but I had lots of friends who have. And a lot of times they say the second one is like the more relaxed than the first one. And well, sometimes it’s opposite, but I was just wondering if a new mother is really anxious already, because she doesn’t know how to be a mom yet. She doesn’t know how to feed and she, the baby’s crying. And then by the second child that she gets in the groove. she’s more relaxed.

that could affect like birth order too could affect that thing. So genetically you say we have these ranges. So let’s just pull out anxiety for now because everyone can relate to that. And so you have this gene for anxiety, you have this spectrum that you’re on like pre-programmed basically. And then the environment either increases it could increase it or suppress it or not suppress it, but like

not make it so heightened, almost not lower it, but not activate it as much. Is that what you’re saying?

Dr. Rob (32:43.816)

Yes, that flexibility that we can learn from our parents, or both inherit and learn is really useful, right? If there’s one definition of mental health, I would say it’s that flexibility, the ability to, to deal with unexpected circumstances, to not freak out, not fight or flight, right, but to

stay with it and ask how do I adapt to this? How do I make a sense of this situation? That’s probably the healthiest human response to the environment.

Debra (33:27.842)

And all these patterns, we want to say this over and over again, no matter what type of even horrible experiences you’ve made, some people have endured, that it doesn’t limit you, that there is a way to transcend all this. the things, the patterns that we create because of those experiences are actually a sign of a healthy mind. chaos, so the child is a little more rigid, that’s what that child needed to survive.

It’s a survival strategy, not a wound, not a damaged part. It’s actually a functioning mind. And then we, then we can outgrow it and we can use a new tool. one last thing before we go and then we’ll, we’re going to continue this series because so fascinating, heritability, the misunderstanding of that.

Dr. Rob (34:19.508)

Yeah, there’s a lot of misunderstanding of that. And it has to do, really, I blame the sciences because they need to present their findings to the public so that the public can use the information instead of holding out, right, and just talking amongst themselves. yeah, professional journals.

Debra (34:42.606)

in the universities and the research writing papers for each other. Journal articles. Yeah.

Dr. Rob (34:48.594)

Yeah, yeah, they have to find a way to communicate the these ideas. So what we know is that we don’t know a lot.

Debra (35:00.59)

That’s a good…

Dr. Rob (35:03.144)

Because if you listen to the so-called experts on YouTube and you know other social media it sounds like man we we got it figured out we got everything figured out you know that’s not the case most of what we know about the brain is tiny little bits of information and we’re we’re simply trying to put it all together and trying to make sense of it there’s still a lot to learn

For those of you interested in studying neuroscience, psychology, genetics, the fields are wide, wide open right now and in big need of really good thinkers to come along and use this information in creative ways. the misconceptions about irritability is that some of the old ones, that

There’s a gene for alcoholism, there’s a gene for depression, there’s a gene for anxiety that if you have these genes, you’re doomed that you’re going to live these things out. That’s not the case. Again, it’s a brain environment or gene environment interaction. And you have a lot more power than you think as a human being. Because if you’re conscious of these things,

If you’re conscious of the patterns in your family system, you don’t have to replay them. You can start to modify that, change them. Even if it’s not, you know, a one-shot thing and you’re done, you can practice finding new ways of coping with anxiety, coping with depression, changing family patterns of alcoholism or overeating or

lack of education, whatever it is, you can consciously make decisions that will change and alter your life in powerful, powerful ways. And of course, that’s why we love coaching because coaching is precisely that process of another human being helping you make those changes, not by doing something special to you, hypnotizing you or treating you in some strange way.

Debra (37:19.15)

Hey. It’s true, right? Like a magical healing.

Dr. Rob (37:24.21)

No, it’s by collaborating with you, talking about how do I make these changes that I want to make in my life? How can I practically start to make these changes and learn new ways of being in the world?

Debra (37:39.969)

And this is why we love Jungian psychology and teach Jungian coaching is because Jung gives us a map of the psychological layer of this. He says we’re not what we’ve, you know, we’re not our childhood, you know, we’re free to become who we meant to be. Like we have freedom and Eastern philosophy that we teach as well as part of our philosophical foundation is all about you’re already, you’d have pure potential. So the genetics show us like a little piece.

And I think what’s harmful, and I remember when I was first starting out in personal development, everything was like personality tests. And this is who you are and you take the test. That’s just a snapshot of your defaults. It’s not a life sentence. And if you had a trauma or a terrible thing happened to you, you don’t have to identify that as you for the rest of your life. You can be free. I think a lot of times people that experience really tough childhoods or really tough experiences,

They feel like their life is damaged forever. And then all the best they can do is just cope. And we know that, there’s strong genetics that help us survive those experiences and come up with strategies. But the psychology of individuation is all about how do I transcend these things? How do I identify outside of my personality concept and step into something completely new?

And that is what’s possible.

Dr. Rob (39:10.516)

That’s right. So this ability to adapt, again, Darwin’s great idea is still very viable today. We can learn new ways of adapting, no matter how difficult the situation is, as long as we’re conscious, we can make decisions, we can find ways to adapt and take the reins of our life in a sense.

Debra (39:37.997)

Yeah, and more than just cope, but really transcend the limitations that were placed in us to survive, to be someone who creates something in their life. mean, we’re creative beings. That’s why we’re here. And that’s why if you think of Darwin’s theory, evolution, think humans have the ability to evolve. And we all have that. We don’t have to stay stuck.

Dr. Rob (39:46.835)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rob (40:02.205)

Yeah.

Debra (40:05.198)

with what the cards we were dealt, whether it’s genetic or environment, we’re not stuck there. And I think that’s so important.

Dr. Rob (40:14.74)

Yeah, the other big misconception is on intelligence. People pay too much attention to this idea that you were born with a certain level of intelligence, right? And they use the IQ tests and all this stuff. And that if you are at a certain level that you’re stuck there. No, you can grow intelligence. You can actually improve even the basic standard test. You can improve

on that test by studying, by cultivating your mind. But even beyond that, we know there are different types of intelligences. So that some people might be good at book learning and other people just learn by doing and observing and they’re more into nature and all kinds of different intelligences that make the human race so diverse and so

Debra (40:54.563)

Yes.

Dr. Rob (41:13.706)

powerful, right? Because together, that means we can do anything together as a species. Once we put our heads together, we can solve any problem.

Debra (41:26.35)

There’s also social intelligence too. There’s some people that are just really good with people, right? And so it’s just to base your whole beingness on an IQ test or a personality test. And that really limits who we are. And that’s really Jung’s idea. He didn’t believe in personality tests. He talked about the introvert extrovert, but that was early in his career and he abandoned it because he’s like, I don’t want to lock people in labels.

It’s helped us to understand, like, it’s, this stuff helps us to understand our patterns, but it doesn’t give us a great idea of how to transcend them, except for I would call rearranging the furniture. And what we’re thinking of is transcending, having the next evolution of who you are versus a shinier, better coping mechanism that you, that you use. And then you have to remind yourself every day because it’s, the pattern is so ingrained in you. And that’s just the way I am. So.

Yeah, it’s really amazing how this works. We have so much more in the next upcoming episodes. We’re going to talk about the brain, more about the brain and how the family frames the environment. We’re going to talk about intergenerational transmission. Can we experience the, leave a biological echo in the world? Love that stuff. So lots more to come. I hope you don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast if you’re watching us on YouTube, the channel.

Great, great stuff coming up for this month and really appreciate you being here and being a part of our work. Take care. Bye-bye.

Dr. Rob (43:00.074)

See you next time.