The Childhood Wounds You Are Trying to Heal May Not Exist

Episode Transcript

Debra & Dr. Rob (00:00.93)
Hello, welcome back to Jung on Purpose. I am Debra Maldonadon. I’m Dr. Rob. Welcome to the program. We’re so glad you’re here. We are continuing our series on early childhood development, the pop psychology approach, the clinical approach, and our approach, which is quite unique, to work with our early childhood patterns, which form all the problems we feel like we have in our life, and how to overcome them in an empowering way. But before we begin, I do want to ask you a favor, if you could subscribe.

To our podcast on the podcast services you’re listening to us on. And if you’re watching us on YouTube, click the button in the corner and make sure you subscribe to our channel and sign up for notifications so you can receive every release of our videos that we send out every week. So when I first started like studying relationship psychology when I was in the, you know, back in the 80s.

I was taught taught I’d never really h heard about attachment theory. I don’t know if it was like popular. I know it’s been around since the sixties, but I didn’t really read a lot about it. I was more reading on codependency and things like that. And so I wanted for those of you who are like me, maybe not sure what it is, I think it would be good to start with what that is, attachment theory. Yeah, that’s a great question. so attachment theory started with John Bowlby, who’s

A British psychologist interested in early childhood development and interested in how those bonds that we all experience as human beings form initially in the early stages of our development. So he came up with this theory of attachment styles. You know, in other words, that there are different ways.

That we attach and form these bonds with each other, but initially with our parents, of course, or our caretakers. because even if our biological parents are not around, anybody that takes care of us, we’re going to bond with and form those very powerful, strong emotional connections. And is it because as children we’re powerless pretty much to take care of ourselves and so we are very dependent on the caretaker?

Debra & Dr. Rob (02:26.004)
And is he the one who did those experiments with the monkey and the mother? Is that him or is that something else? Somebody else, the the yeah, that came along later. but there was a woman, another psychologist named Mary Mary Ainsworth, who did the actual studies on Bowlby’s theory. okay. So she developed these situations. They I think it was called the Strange Situation.

where the child was put in a room that they weren’t familiar with and then the mother would walk out of the room. that I remember those. Yes. And and of course they were using videotape at that time and and looking at what were the reactions of the child when the mother came back into the room after a period of kind of abandonment in a sense, right, that the child experienced.

And there she’s they they started to observe these patterns that were very clear. So the secure securely attached child would welcome the mother back and just kind of run into her arms and s and you know, everything’s cool. I’m back, or you know, she’s back. the anxious and ambivalent child wasn’t sure what to do.

Some of them would go up to the mother, but maybe they would push her away or or be angry at her. those kind of patterns. And these were studied, you know, over and over. In other words, it wasn’t just one situation or one experiment. then the avoidant child would essentially reject the mother when they came back. Which was in it’s interesting, right? then there w

Later on, more research they developed the disorganized attachment style, which is kind of a mixture of all of these. Like you you don’t know what you’re going to get. But and it’s hard for like if you’re in a relationship, like if you know they’re avoidant, supposedly, or that’s their style, that they you know they’re gonna shut down and you know, that’s their their p their their go to. And with the the and with disorganized, it’s like you never know what you’re going to get.

Debra & Dr. Rob (04:50.316)
So imagine, so I I love this idea because we always think of it as what my parent has done to me, like what the what my relation with my parent has done. But we don’t realize that the parent also has an attach well, an attachment style that they learn from their parent. And so they’re reacting in their way based on a previous experience. So the child, I think, well, we all think it take it personally, and our mother should be better.

Our mother should be perfect. and it’s primarily the mother as the basically the impact for the child, the primary impact. I mean, the father definitely plays a role, but in those early life, the mother’s pretty much present all mostly all the time. And so they become kind of the core, right? The core kind of cause in a way. well, we think it that way. Yeah. So the theory then proceeds to understand that.

Though those early experiences with attachment then become the blueprint for your life as you come into adulthood, you’re still kind of using that framework to form relationships, to find your your work, meaningful work, friendships. Friendship,

Having your own p kids and how you relate to them? How you pass that on and your siblings and so so it brings up a lot of questions, of course, like are we stuck with those patterns or can we modify them? Is that my style? You know. Or I guess the goal is to be secure. But then the assumption is that if I am not secure, then there’s something broken in me that my style is wrong and bad and terrible. And you know, you you were messed up.

you know, your parents mess you up because you have this dysfunctional style. But like we talked about this morning, we were just having this conversation, is that it’s not about dysfunction. If we look at it outside of the clinical model, we could say, well, why would a child, why would how would it serve a child to be avoidant or to be disorganized? how would that actually serve the child in those early stages and their strategies?

Debra & Dr. Rob (07:13.548)
Yeah, and and the original theory was not a clinical model per se. these models were mainly to understand development. How do we develop emotions? How do we develop these attachment? attachments for each other, how do we use our emotions initially as children? And how does that translate into later

development as adults. What happens in psychology is those models then are used to develop therapies or therapeutic models based on the information that the the theory has provided. And so that’s why once it gets into popular culture, it’s kind of distorted. It’s it’s more translated as

You know, if you have this style, it’s it’s almost like a personality that a flaw even. And that was not the original understanding that the theory gave us. it’s more a distorted perspective that happens through just through osmosis, right? The the culture once it gets a whiff of this, they they start to formulate their own ideas of what that means.

Well, psychology has been driven mainly by the medical model. So they use medical terms like wounded, healed, trauma, which are medical terms, to and diagnosis and treatment. So it starts to become and because of the insurance industry and you know, getting pay you know, diagnosis and treatment is kind of gives it validity in science. And and then what happens is that people feel like, I’m an avoidant person now. I am.

And avoidant personality versus I tend to be avoidant in per in my relationships versus and then it’s becomes like an identity and then a brokenness to it. So there’s like tests you could take, and then you get an assessment and you get your diagnosis of this trait, and then that’s who you’re kind of like having to navigate around that. But like I was saying before, there why would someone need to be avoidant? Like why would someone need to be you know mixed?

Debra & Dr. Rob (09:39.331)
with their responses or anxious around thing and may there it’s it like so let’s say the parent was disorganized, the child or had those tendencies, the child maybe avoidant would be a protective mechanism, a a sign of a healthy mind, versus, you know, just running to the mother and being like hurt again or or or or you know having their feelings hurt or whatever. Like it was a way to protect their heart versus this

terrible way you learn to cope, it like, well that makes sense in that experience. yes, not only that. it’s actually now we’re seeing and understanding that those the the challenging experience of childhood. I’d say not having your needs completely met when you need Like me, I had all my needs met. Just kidding. Right. Like none of us have, right?

None of us have. but they are essential for resiliency. In other words, if we’re pampered too much, if we’re mothered too much, we’re smothered, but we’re not developing our own way of self regulation, of self soothing. So the the the model

When we look at it now with the all the understanding that has accumulated over the years, we we can kind of glean a better understanding of what these patterns are. That they are essential for most of us to grow in in a secure way, not initially. Let’s say i if we if the environment is not secure for us initially, let’s say that

We need help and it’s the our parents aren’t available to us. Or they’re working all the time. Yeah, for some reason. Sick. You know, they’re that that challenge is not necessarily scarring and traum traum traumatizing or traumatic. It it can serve as re as a building block of resiliency for us. Now that’s a very different take from from the idea of

Debra & Dr. Rob (12:01.44)
Everything is trauma and we’re all traumatized because you know bad or difficult things happen to us. So that that’s always what we’re, let’s say, aiming at is to to give people a better understanding of what depth psychology brings to the table, especially in a coaching model where we can empower people to understand themselves, not from the clinical perspective of.

brokenness and trauma, but from the this idea that okay, life is challenging. It’s going to challenge you, but that you need it. It’s like the the pressure, the friction that we need to develop our mental, emotional, and even spiritual muscle so that we trust in ourselves, with that we develop that skill of relying on ourselves, not always on others. And so

We always say that whatever our challenge is, that’s the gold. you know, Joseph Campbell said that cave we dare to enter contains the treasure that we seek. And in personal growth, a lot of people want to avoid or run away from their patterns. They want to get rid of the n toxic people. They don’t want to feel bad, they wanna feel good, and they don’t really go toward it because they think if they go toward it, something that it’s gonna destroy them in some way.

And what it actually does is a actually see that you’re strong in those things. one of the things I love about well that when we think about the patterns in early childhood and we think about these attachment theories, when we think about from a youngin’ perspective, Young would call those complexes. They’re they’re ways we learn to cope. And we don’t even have to even in Jungin analysis, they

Might have think of complexes as a terrible thing. But it actually is just the way the mind organizes itself. And we all have them. We all have a different way of seeing the world, seeing money, seeing relationships, seeing men, seeing women, seeing power, all these things. And our unique interpretation, our unique psychology is something we should examine not from a broken place, but from a place of

Debra & Dr. Rob (14:25.282)
this is why I process information this way. This is why my behaviors this way. This is why I react this way. but if we approach it more from that friendly, empowered way, we stop being afraid to approach those things. Like we’re not afraid to look at those things. We’re actually curious and and explore like almost like on a treasure hunt, exploring like what what is this about me? And I think one of the main things that I see is that

When we think about personal growth, it’s it should be an ex exciting adventure. It shouldn’t be like something you want to do to get over it so you can have the things you want in life. It should be part of like your soul development, part of your personal development. Should be all of like a great discovery of who you are and what makes you and how amazing you are, versus I gotta fix the holes that are damaged in the ship so I could sail to my destination. Yeah.

Young, from that perspective, we can think of his his model as all your life you’re going through developmental stages. It doesn’t end. Yeah. Because if you notice, like every stage, every decade of your life requires new skills, a new adaptation, a new challenge. And so your your mind is ready for that. It’s designed for that.

It’s it’s called neuroplasticity, and neuroplasticity helps us do that, adapt and change and reorganize our our way of thinking, our way of being, our emotional life. that’s why we’re able to create different things at different stages in our lives. so the good news is we’re not stuck with those labels, and often we hear people talk about them that way, that if you’re introvert or if you’re

You have a an anxious attachment style that that defines you and p and people actually start to identify with those labels. But we used to do calls, we don’t hear this anymore. I guess the people that draw into our work, but when we used to do calls like early on in our career with clients, they would identify I am blank and this I am this person that had this happen to me when I was a child and I’ve been working on this for ten years. And

Debra & Dr. Rob (16:51.062)
And w it’s defined by that. And with I love what you said about the stages and Young, I love his book, Modern Man in Search of the Soul. He has a a a chapter in there on the stages of life. I highly recommend it. but if we’re always looking back, we never we’re not really s entering the next stage. And so we’re basically stunting our growth. It’s like staying in kindergarten when we should be in graduate school of our soul, we’re we we’re working on things that

Really d they are affecting us, but if we keep over processing it, we never become free. And I think we overprocess because we still look at it as something bad and wrong that we have to fix. And since there’s really not like the mind is intangible, how do you fix all that? How do you fix the past? How do you fix those patterns? You don’t fix them, you evolve from them. And so it’s about evolving into who you are and knowing that the per the patterns and these these like conditioned responses.

We talk about it as an ego. It’s it the ego, this little I in us that learned how to cope with life, but we’re not the ego. And so we I think many people live their whole life thinking I am the ego and I have to keep working on this I, this ego, versus in young psychology is transcending it, which is why I think it with with it matches well with Eastern philosophy, is that evolution of evolving from the ego.

Where I think a lot of therapies are very building up the ego and you know, re rearranging the furniture in the ego and not transcending because they don’t have that spiritual aspect to it. Yeah. Yeah, I love that you mentioned the Eastern philosophy I was reading this morning. it’s a kind of a metaphor that I was reading about. It said imagine that you’re standing on the beach and in front of you is this vast ocean.

And your desire is to get to the other side. So the problem is essentially this big giant body of water that is the ocean. It says, Yes, but that same body of water can carry a ship that weighs tons and tons, and you can carry yourself and carry others and carry material and all that stuff to sail across that ocean.

Debra & Dr. Rob (19:15.34)
The very thing most people would consider the problem is the solution. It’s what gives you the ability to cross the ocean, the water itself, meaning the obstacle is the path. Obstacle’s the way. It’s the way. That is the our situation with our life and the challenges in our life. Those are the very things that give us the opportunity to.

build resiliency, to build strength, to build our character. They’re not just obstacles to be overcome, like you were saying, or to get rid of. No matter how difficult you’ve had it or you have it, those things can be turned into empowerment. Mm-hmm. I really love that. And so when it comes to it, what’s the goal of the the the person is these all these patterns like what is the

The foundation of why we have these patterns. And it’s one word security. How do we feel secure? Like security, secure attachment, but how do we feel secure in the world? How do we feel secure with money? How do we feel feel secure in relationships? How do we be secure with ourselves? You know, the term insecure, insecurity. so if you think about security as

the foundation of where we would get that is that spiritual knowledge, right? And so what how do we cultivate security? we we have this adaptive strategy we learned early on, but we can use that strategy like the like you say, the ocean to s develop the security. And it’s for me I always think of it as we found security in the outside world. We look for our mom to to

acknowledge us or our father to acknowledge us, teachers to acknowledge us, in relationships, someone to let us know we’re safe, and we’re always looking in the world and checking in. And so what we’re wanting to do is turn it inward. And how do I find that security from the inside, right? Yeah. yeah, the the big picture for us is like this. If you do not understand those early years and kind of the the messages that were

Debra & Dr. Rob (21:40.309)
Instill in you. Because what happens is we internalize our parents’ own ability to regulate their mind and their nervous system, as it’s called now, you know, kind of the the scientific jargon now is that the the nervous system needs regulation. We do that that naturally by observing our parents and interacting with them.

So initially we’re we’re these early interactions with our parents is teaching us how to self-regulate. And it and the aim, of course, is to be self-regulated enough to leave the family because nobody wants to stay home forever. you you have your own purpose in life and you go off, right? And and become an a a young adult yourself.

If you stay home, if you do not learn to self regulate and feel secure enough to face the challenges of life. But take risks and and go for jobs and fall in love, all those things. Yeah. That’s where we see people kind of falling into despair, into drug addiction, into all these mental health issues, right? Or just just kind of like not changing and just staying in their same pattern and

That’s their way of just keeping consistency. Even if it’s not fulfilling, it’s you could even be really successful, but your security is in that, you know, paycheck at the corporate job, or your security is in the pi the marriage or the partnership you’re in, even though it’s not fulfilling at all anymore, but you can’t leave the family or what makes you a parent in that family keeps you secure. Yeah. So there is a way to change those early patterns.

Because by the time we were young adults, we’ve forgotten a lot of those experiences. And so they are part of our unconscious mind, part of the way we assume the world to be, but we’re not really seeing the world. What we’re seeing is our own assumptions of the world. And that’s well borne out in in perceptual perceptual research.

Debra & Dr. Rob (24:06.216)
Our perception is very much kind of tainted or biased towards those early experiences. So that again, these attachment patterns, if you’re insecure in your attachment patterns, guess what? You’re going to be insecure in your relationship. I mean, it just makes sense, right? most people would say, well, okay.

What if I just change it? What if I become conscious of this and have insight into the this idea that okay, I’m I’m acting out my old early childhood patterns in my relationships? Insight is not enough. We know that much. In other words, there’s there’s been a hundred years of Jungian psychology and other psychodynamic models that show that insight is not enough.

make those real change, changes of emotional bonding and attraction and all these things. You need the insight because the insight gives you the understanding of okay, you you’re looking into your own mind, you’re questioning how am I acting in relationships? And you’re taking responsibility for that. Those are really important pieces.

that if you simply try to change the behavior without applying the insight in a deeper sense of accepting that the the the challenges are essentially inner challenges, not external ones. It’s a perspective. Like the it’s like are you are you see the world as separate from you that you have to tame or or protect yourself from like you were as a kid. So if you’re approaching

The world that way, it’s like you’re still a child in your mind, like your child a child like a kind of insecurity you have because you’re still looking for the world to make you feel secure, the world to make you the person to make you feel loved. Yeah. And and that’s a big part of money to make you feel worthy. Yeah, that’s all a big part of projection, as Jong says. So projection is simply this idea that what is in our mind, both conscious and unconscious,

Debra & Dr. Rob (26:30.742)
will become our experiences in the world. And and these are big ideas, in other words, big for every human being. The quality of your relationships with others, in other words, the attachment patterns, the happiness or lack of in the meaningful work or lack of meaningful work. That you hate your work or you you end up feeling that

Whatever I’m doing, I’m just doing it to survive, just to get by, just to pay the rent. Or I just hate my bosses, I hate all my coworkers, I hate the company, all these these things that people fall into without accepting any responsibility themselves. That’s projection. All right, it plays out in i it seems very subtle, very simple, but it has big consequences. That’s that’s what I’m trying to get across.

That it has huge consequences for our life because it determines the the things that really we consider success and happiness, your relationships and your work, as well as your spiritual development. Well, I think that a lot of what like people are missing is also their spiritual connection.

They don’t have a spiritual life, or they they kind of think they have a spiritual life, but they really don’t have like it again from insight or intellectual understanding of, you know, whether you grew up going to church or going to temple and you have kind of a concept of God or higher power, or you even study Buddhism, but it’s very intellectual and you don’t have that direct experience. I remember one of our students, she studied Buddhism for many, many years. She was like a master studier,

trained in all levels of the the the the Buddhist temple that she went to. And she said doing this youngin’ work and going inward unco to the unconscious is what gave her a direct experience. She said, I know I knew there was this love in me. I knew there was a self or this kind of higher self in me, but I didn’t know how to experience it. And and this was really a profound way to do it. And that’s really

Debra & Dr. Rob (28:56.514)
What I think people miss is a direct experience of their own divine nature or the connection to the divine. Otherwise, you are projecting out there that this world is, you know, is the answer to everything. And not to say that there aren’t great things in the world. We do want to go out, we don’t want to go into a cave and just meditate on God and feel spiritual. We wanna be able to create things in the world and help others and and do all those things. But but that that that spiritual foundation.

needs to be there as well. Yeah, so the the big picture gives us this idea of developmental models help us understand the family field in more intricate ways. But we have to reinterpret often the data. Instead of looking at the information that these

These models give us as signs of trauma and signs of brokenness and and needing to repair or fix. We look at them as natural forces of rupture and repair repair. That they’re necessary to build that resiliency in us. So rupture and repair we see is always a natural process.

the day we the first day we went to school, a lot of us were anxious and didn’t know what to expect and you know we were gonna be separated from the parents and that’s a rupture in a sense. Or the family gets divorced and you’re young and the two parents separate and that rupture of that s family system gets disrupted. Moving to a new city and you ha now have to go to a new school and get new friends or something like that.

Yes. Then the repair piece is finding new ways of coping with that. Creative ways. Creative ways that build resiliency. So your question, right, how do we build resiliency? We we are always building resiliency. Often it’s the definition that we give to these experiences that messes us up.

Debra & Dr. Rob (31:21.802)
If we d define something as traumatic, even so you know, we hear people talk about, well, you know, my my relationship with my mother early on was ambiguous, right? I have a mother wound, she was negative or yeah, she was not at ground and Yes. Those things we can define as as trauma, but what that will do

It will simply kind of reframe an opportunity into something that hurt us. Mm-hmm. And then now pushes us away from repairing that relationship. It can’t be it can’t be an opportunity if you label it as bad. Yeah. So you’re kind of like limp putting yourself in a cage in a way, locking yourself in a fixed position of that experience, thinking it’s terrible. And I remember one time a

Yeah, early on when I first started doing personal growth growth, I met with this meditation teacher and I was talking about my father and like how tough our relationship was. And he goes, Well, he said, that relationship helped you look for truth. He said, That’s a beautiful thing that you sought answers. So all of you who love personal growth, listen to this podcast. Whatever happened to you, it got got you where you are right now to search for answers, search for a better life. So there’s a seed of that.

There. It’s just to finally, it’s not letting go of what they did or excusing them or, you know, saying it’s fine. Everything happens for a reason. It’s that I I’m not broken because of that. I’m resilient. And because of that, I can create a great life. I’m not limited by those things. Exactly. It’s the approach, it’s the definition, it’s what we now call the mindset. The mindset has a lot to do with.

How we experience life. If our mindset is negative or limited, impoverished, I don’t know, small, that’s what we’re going to experience. That’s what we’re going to make out of our life. Well, and even to our like it’s really how we identify. If we’re identified as someone who experienced trauma, identified someone with a wound, identified someone who needs healing.

Debra & Dr. Rob (33:46.029)
we are seeing a very small, limited part of ourselves. Absolutely. And so the model that we’ve developed based on Jungian psychology, including neuroscience now and Eastern philosophy, really gives us a better picture of how the mind works, how we can develop that open mindset.

Where we start to see opportunity, abundance, just this ability to create our own strength and and depend on ourselves and trust in our our true nature, as they say in the East. our true nature is very powerful. As human beings, we’re able to create our reality. That reality, of course, is what we call our life. Look at your life.

If you’re unhappy, if there’s things that you know need your attention, just remember there’s a way to to develop that, to to change those things, to make them work for you in powerful ways. And maybe be even better than a person who had like a flat ordinary life, someone who’s been through tough th times.

maybe even make you even more powerful because you’re really looking at the you you’re in touch with your emotions and and all these you know concepts and you’re learning about yourself and psychology. I mean you’re driven to seek answers. I mean there’s a lot of people that have had traumatic or we what people would call traumatic events and they never seek answers. They’re just kind of go off and like you say, drink or do drugs or throw themselves into a career and make money and all those things.

So the fact that you’re seeking personal growth is a sign that there’s a part of you that knows already your wisdom. Now, I want to talk about archetypal family field because I feel like this is really important, which separates Jung’s work from ordinary therapy and then even some psycho Jungian analysis. Archetypal family field is our new system that we developed over the past year, working with those early family systems in a coaching model.

Debra & Dr. Rob (36:03.538)
And when I talked about the idea that we seek out there security and safety and love and acceptance, that is like a default that we all are in. How do we how do we reclaim that power? Well, we have to look at, well, what happened? Why did we give our parents so much power? Yes, we were an infants, we didn’t weren’t able to go out and get our own job at the point we have were very dependent.

biologically and socially with the parent initially. But there’s a deeper aspect of this dynamic with the parents, which Jung talked about, which is the mother and father archetype. And those, these archetypes are think of them as universal patterns. There’s everyone has a mother, everyone has a father, animal kingdom, even in nature, you see the mother-father and the dynamics of the yin and yang. So we’re born, we have this

archetypal power that we project onto the mother and we re project onto the father. And then we create an image of how who we are in relation to that person. And that what Jung would call the imago. So we have a mother image and a father image. And inside of that image is our power, but we have projected it out there. So it’s like surrounded in kind of like I always think it’s like all like mixed up with our parents experience. So we don’t we can’t really get at that power.

We hear that a lot, right? We we are powerful, we can do anything we want, but how do we access it? How do we get to it, not on an intellectual level? And so, do you want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah. Yeah, I I think we need the intellectual level, but again, it’s it it’s insight is not enough. So we need the understanding, and that’s what the model or the theory does. The models give us a a theoretical, intellectual understanding.

The practice though is often what’s missing. So the practice is getting at the emotional core of these complexes. So in you know, in attachment theory, the the most difficult one is the disorganized one. In essence, let’s imagine that your father is the security.

Debra & Dr. Rob (38:26.1)
Symbol for you in the family. Power, right? Security and power. But at the same time, he’s the one that inflicts punishment or consequences, right, for your actions. Well often when those things are mixed in the mind, we they kind of cancel each other out so that we don’t know what to do.

We’re not sure, we’re ambivalent or we’re insecure about how to approach the father element, the father archetype in essence. So in other ways maybe we l learn to avoid friction in a relationship so that we don’t d break a relationship. So we end up being more passive in relationships. We don’t own our own power. The other person we continue to project, whether it’s a partner or a boss or

A child, even our own children, we project that that person has a sense of security. I don’t have my own security. It’s like a relational, a transactional element. So according to the model then, that that conflict is internalized, meaning that as you leave the home, you grow up, you you know, you you leave your father behind essentially, but you’ve internalized that dynamic.

Now the power is coming from your unconscious mind. This is what you don’t call the archetypes. The father archetype is the one that is essentially still generating that that sense of purpose, that sense of action, that that the will to to work and create in the world. That’s all the father archetype.

But because it’s mixed with your personal complex, you’re not able to access that power. Because you you whatever you learned from your father, you learn this is what power is, this is what success is, this is what the will is. So very simple. Like if you saw your father, he grew up in a middle class family working two or three jobs and and sweating it out and mom checking the coupons and just always working hard to just make enough.

Debra & Dr. Rob (40:48.502)
And then you learn in order to succeed success means hard work, you know, and we end up growing up, getting jobs and overworking, working 60 hour weeks and and feeling like that’s what we need to to succeed. And and we could see that in like most people are middle class, working class mental, you know, that mentality, a majority of us are in in the world. And so it’s almost like in in in the field we’re operating in.

Is you can’t get money easily. You can’t success doesn’t come easy. You have to really, really work hard for it. And so we’re th we’re seeing a very distorted view of the world, and then it reflects back to us and confirms what we believe. So we always talk about like what the world is showing us is showing our beliefs. That’s really the mechanism that’s working. But it’s less of I have to work hard to get money and just changing that thought. It’s getting into the complex, the emotional hook.

That’s keeping us there. And here’s the kicker. If we don’t, because we love our father, even if they were hard on us, we still love them. We don’t want to break that bond. so for us to make money easily would be almost like disowning our father or abandoning the agreement we had. And it’s very unconscious. So so when you we start working with this model, Jung talks about the uncoupling.

And that we’re able to uncouple our personal experience from this archetypal power, then we’re able to approach money by choice. If we want to work hard and we love to work hard and we feel we’re not trying to scam people, we’re just working hard because we love it. That’s a very different mentality than someone who says, I didn’t work hard enough this week. That’s why I don’t I’m not making the money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it’s an amazing model because it accounts for where does the the power

come from. Yes. And it comes from the collective unconscious. So these archetypes, they’re not personal. It’s a in the complex, it’s essentially a mixture of our personal experience with our parents and these archetypal forces that are much older and deeper in the psyche. Once we uncouple them, like you said, then we’re able to access the power directly from the archetype itself.

Debra & Dr. Rob (43:15.692)
without it in other words, without denying or pushing away our experience with our personal fathers or our parents, we understand that whole process through insight, through emotional work. We’re able to to come to terms with our history without denying it, running away from it, blaming them, which is often what happens, right? We hear of people

Disowning their parents and and my parents are the reason, the cause of my pain. Yeah. But the thing is, it’s not the cause. You are always the cause. Your parents are never the cause because you unconsciously, not consciously, but you unconsciously projected the power onto them. So you gave them permission to shape you. And so once you take that responsibility, my I, as an unknowing little infant had this archetypal.

projection onto my mother, and that is why sh I gave her so much power and my whole identity is wrapped up in that, then you can say I take responsibility. That’s how you become free, not by getting your parents to say they’re sorry for what they did or having conversations with them. I mean you can do that. That’s fine. But that’s like the slower version of just patching up the past. This is saying, wow, I if you could look at that and say, this is

Edit that out.

Debra & Dr. Rob (44:50.594)
You add something in. If you could look at that, if you could look at that and say, Wow, look how powerful I am. I have have so much power inside of me that I actually created this shaping of my identity. And if I have the power that I did this myself, I did this in my own psyche, my own world, that means I have the power to change it. It doesn’t matter.

Out there, what the world is doing. I have the power. And that is really the freedom that archetypal family feel the system provides. Is is like you’re not dependent on other people agreeing with you. You have just have to deal with your own inner self. And then the outer world will start to change. You, you, your filter will start to change. And we talk about the field, it’s the field of consciousness that it’s almost like wiping the cleanse the lens of perception.

Are cleansed is cleansed, the world is is it as it truly is, infinite, William Blake. that is really what we create. I love it. Yeah. But I think through the process of understanding and the patterns and going, this is how this was created, and I’m responsible, not to blame yourself, but to say, I own it, I can own this, then you can change it. And it’s really a great way to see.

That the world is just a reflection, and then from there, imagine what you can create. Yeah. Again, because the insight gives us the map of the journey, but the actual practice, really confronting the emotional power of the complexes and uncoupling those and understanding that, yeah, we can.

not only survive the process, but actually thrive because now we have access to these archetypal energies in the psyche. That process is transformative to say the least. Yeah. So I hope you enjoyed our overview of archetypal family field and the attachment theory. I know some of our recent podcasts about childhood development have been very popular. So we’re going to do some more. People are saying they really enjoy this topic.

Debra & Dr. Rob (47:10.206)
And we really want to break the cycle of people feeling broken and approaching personal growth from an empowerment model and a coaching model. Not everyone needs therapy. there are most people just need coaching. They need to understand and have someone to guide them through the unconscious patterns that they have so that they can free themselves. And it really is powerful. So we will see you again next week on another.

Jung on purpose. See you soon. Take care.