Is it Resistance or a Redirection?

Episode Transcript

Debra (00:01)

Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Jung on Purpose. I am Debra Maldonado.

Dr. Rob (00:07)

I’m Dr. Rob. Welcome to the program.

Debra (00:10)

And we have a great episode today. We’re talking about a common question we get, we’ve have gotten from our clients over the years. And the question is: you’re imagine you’re starting a business or you’re starting something new and you hit a wall. And the question is, is this my resistance or is it a redirection? Is the universe trying to tell me or God trying to tell me that I should be doing something different? And how do we know?

The difference. And that’s what we’re going to talk about today. Is it resistance or redirection? And we’re going to open your eyes a little bit and mind to a new way to think about making decisions and actually stepping out of your comfort zone, which this is all about. Before we begin, just a quick reminder: please subscribe to our channel if you’re watching us on YouTube. There’s a little button in the corner, click it, and you’ll get notification of every episode.

And if you are listening to us and in the podcast services, don’t forget to subscribe. That helps us reach more people. We really appreciate it. So Rob, is it resistance or redirection? What is the real question?

Dr. Rob (01:15)

That’s right.

Dr. Rob (01:24)

Yeah. A lot of it has to do with e are you coming from ego? Are you operating from your ego? Or are you are you acting from your higher vision? What we call purpose, or some people might call it the true self. They’re interchangeable really because it’s the same principle. It’s a principle that is it transcends your

Debra (01:40)

Or your true self.

Dr. Rob (01:53)

Ego self, your individuality. And so a lot of people don’t understand that. So maybe that’s something we can define. Yeah. yeah, exactly. Yeah, it because it it’s a counterintuitive idea, meaning it doesn’t make logical sense. And much of psychology, the more the more depth psychology and the more advanced kind of spiritual principles don’t

Debra (01:59)

Yeah, let’s start with that. What does that mean? Who’s who’s acting? It’s not the character, right?

Dr. Rob (02:22)

make logical sense. They’re kind of beyond our logic. So most of us know what the ego is, but perhaps the they, you know, if we ask the the the person on the street, what is your ego, they might not be able to articulate it. But they know it.

Debra (02:40)

Nothing cockiness, right? Egotistical, that type of thing. Yeah.

Dr. Rob (02:43)

Yeah, but and they also know it directly because it’s that sense of I. Who is who’s the the one that is talking? It’s me, it’s I. So there’s this sense of I that the brain generates, but it has no focal point in the brain. In other words, there’s no there’s no real structure to it.

It’s it’s more of a function, almost like software versus hardware. the software is running and it creates this sense of eye. so the brain, we could say the all the neurons and the tissue of the brain, that’s the hardware. But the the software are the functions that it creates and that y it uses to run the programs. So out of that programming,

This sense of I me mine. So the I me mine. Anytime you’re thinking in I mean, you’re an ego, or that’s your ego thinking. Yes. Yes.

Debra (03:48)

Like my new career, my success, my actions. So tying to the body, tying to the identity and the character that you identify as yourself, separate from the world. That would be the ego, thinking that it’s this little tiny boat on the top of the ocean trying to adjust the sails to navigate life. That’s the ego. That the ego function. It’s not a thing. It’s a your function, your mind is functioning on that very small.

Dr. Rob (04:00)

Absolutely.

Dr. Rob (04:12)

The ego function.

Debra (04:18)

limited level.

Dr. Rob (04:19)

That’s right. Now there’s nothing wrong with it. We need the ego. We could not get to this point if we did not have an ego. All right. So a lot of people talk about the ego as the enemy, as something to destroy, something to get rid of. you know, that’s well, we we can talk about that later, but it’s not that that we don’t need the ego, it’s that

It serves us really well by helping us create our self identity, our persona, as Jung would say.

Debra (04:55)

And survive the you know helps us survive and navigate the world so it has a function.

Dr. Rob (05:00)

Yes. And it operates on a basic principle. Move towards what’s comfortable, safe, productive, feels good, nourishing, etc. And move away from what’s abrasive, hurtful, painful, on and on, right? In other words, this dualistic kind of sense of the world. I’m going to move towards what’s good for me and stay away from.

What’s bad for me for the I mean mind.

Debra (05:31)

Or what feels uncomfortable even, you know? Right? It could be just deal just a little uncomfortable and the ego might pull away. Everyone has their different limit of comfort that the discomfort that they can take. So so the ego you when we think about the brain, the the brain is kind of operates in a way to record things that or responses.

Dr. Rob (05:34)

Yes, huh?

Debra (06:00)

during those decisions or all through life of what worked, what didn’t work.

Dr. Rob (06:06)

Yeah. So in recent neuroscience, what the the model that has emerged is this this idea is the the brain as a predicting machine or a predicting organ, let’s say. So what this means is this l we gather experience through living, right? Through direct experience, we we start to learn and we’re observing others and learning from others and from our parents and teachers, etcetera.

Now, what that does, it gives us an assumption about what reality is. What can I expect from going out and looking for a job? What do I expect? That internal model, that expectation, is a prediction. I’m predicting either that I will lose or I will win. I’m oversimplifying it, but just for the sake of explanation.

We hold this prediction in our mind. Then when I actually go through the the process of searching for a job and going for interviews, what my my brain is doing is it’s comparing my prediction or the prediction that it made with the actual events that it perceived. And it’s so if there’s a mismatch, it learns from that mismatch. It says,

I was wrong about this and I was right about that, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s a process of learning.

Debra (07:37)

You know, that’s interesting. What remind this reminds me a lot of not just people living their purpose, but when we worked it with love clients that wanted to find love, that that prediction machine was they got their heart broken. The person cheated, or you know, the men don’t follow follow through. And so that the brain starts to predict what’s going to happen with every new person.

And then so they meet someone and they’re already preparing for the person to leave. And then then they guard themselves and they’re not into that kind of being in the moment with this new person. They’re basically bringing all the past with them. Of course, there’s the subconscious, all that other stuff. But the brain, you know, is like recording everything and is like the top of the kind of the fun the software that it’s running. And so that’s why they feel like, I don’t know, or make assumptions. they didn’t call, I guess they

Dr. Rob (08:35)

Mm-hmm.

Debra (08:37)

they’re giving up on me and let let’s go. so in a way it it’s helps us predict and survive, but it also limits us to look at things at a fresh perspective. Would you say like it doesn’t look at an event in an individualized what’s possible space. It it’s looking like kind of running the data, kind of like AI. It runs the data and only gives what you feed it. Right. So it doesn’t have like that imagination to a be able to well

At this point, we never know what’s gonna happen with that. But and so let’s go back to the decision then. So let’s say this person starts their business, starts, you know, marketing themselves or networking with people, and nothing’s happening. they think, maybe this isn’t there’s not enough people that want to buy my product or service. maybe there’s not a need for it.

Or like maybe I’m just not thinking positive enough. And so what happens is a lot of times they’ll go, I gotta work really hard on my mindset because I’m hitting this resistance. But what we’re they’re doing is they’re battling, trying to get rid of the resistance. They’re they’re still trying to like push it out of the way and move like barrel through it through like their mental power. I’m gonna like push through it. But that the thing is.

They’re thinking of this decision or this this resistance from ego, which is that there’s something out there that’s stopping me, or my mind that’s stopping me, but I still want the little goal, I will still want the little the carrot at the end of the stick. I still want that to feel good about myself. And so in that situation, you’re hitting that resistance, you’re fighting the resistance in order to get the goodies.

it becomes very exhausting. I think a lot of times people are like, my God, I’ve been manif trying to manifest and you know, they do all their little tricks and their vision boards and ma mantras and a and and keep holding the faith, but nothing happens. And the thing is they’re doing it all from ego. And so that’s the

Dr. Rob (10:40)

Yeah, so in this model, let’s say resistance comes from a a a different function of the ego. So it’s not necessarily that it’s predicting, but that it’s

It’s projecting. So the ego creates for itself a comfort zone.

Because I yeah, that that one is based on prediction. The comfort zone, let’s say, is built out of prediction, meaning it holds on to things and kind of assumes that what what is real and what is desirable for itself is are things that it can predict. So what can we predict? Even if we’re unhappy, we can predict.

Debra (11:05)

Which is kind of a prediction. Yeah.

Dr. Rob (11:33)

Predict what will happen tomorrow if we act the same way we acted yesterday. The same as we’ll get the same effect, essentially. And so people will stay in their comfort zone even if they are unhappy, because it’s predictable. So that creates the comfort zone. So when we’re doing something, let’s say we like you say you want something beyond that.

we beyond what you’ve experienced so far, that’s outside of your b comfort bo bubble, your comfort zone. Therefore, it’s going to set the alarms off that you’re entering dangerous territory, you’re entering the unknown, and you cannot predict what’s going to happen. So there’s where the imagination comes in. Now, most people, because they have no training in the and use of their imagination.

What they project is the worst possible outcome. Or perhaps a l a bit of both, right? They have the

Debra (12:40)

Well also they the maybe the they they predict nothing happening almost as a relief. Like almost like see da I knew this wasn’t right, I better not do it.

Dr. Rob (12:47)

Almost, yeah.

Yes. But under let’s say whatever whatever the they imagine, the the assumption is already that they’re acting out of their comfort zone or that they’re entering dangerous territory. In other words, the brain takes it as a threat. That if you’re leaving your comfort zone, there’s a threat or the possibility of a threat, the possibility of danger.

So that’s the underlying floor that you’re entering now, this new endeavor. Anything that you can’t predict, the brain reads it as a threat, a a possible danger. So now that is kind of the attitude that you’re going into this new venture into, even if it’s great, it’s it’s it’s it has full potential for you. It has a lot of opportunities, but because you cannot predict it.

You feel threatened by it. And therefore, the tendency is to want to stay in your comfort zone, to regress.

Debra (13:51)

Can I ask you a question? So

Debra (13:57)

So would it be safe to assume that if someone is out of their comfort zone, that almost as if the ego is like on high alert, like you said, that it’s actually even harder, like almost like it’s easy to imagine and dream, right? Dream about your potential and think I’m gonna be an author one day, or I’m gonna create this business, I’m gonna be a teacher, spiritual teacher, and you know, be like famous and have a

Best selling book. But then when you take those steps, it’s almost like you have this, I call it spiritual amnesia. The ego basically intensifies its grip. And and and really this is the time that you have to manage your mind. Because if you don’t know how to work with your mind, the ego will almost have a stronger grip because you’re outside of the comfort zone. It’s like the ego’s kind of relaxed when you’re in your comfort zone.

And when you step out, it’s like, Hold on, get back here. Let me talk like it it increases anxiety, probably, increases stress. it becomes hyper vigilant of looking for all the th ways things can go wrong. Don’t you think that would be part of that process?

Dr. Rob (15:13)

Yeah, that that’s pretty well understood now in neuroscience as well. That when you’re when you feel under threat, and even when you’re not, but it in other words, the brain is always doing this. Whatever your assumptions are, and so so if your assumption is I will fail, it will look for things that match that assumption and it will make them stand out in your perception. So that

Debra (15:41)

Like confirmation bias?

Dr. Rob (15:43)

Almost like confirmation bias, but it it’s more perceptual that your brain is showing you things that match your internal assumption. So you’re not really seeing reality. What you’re seeing is those those particular things in the environment that match the the your your internal assumption.

Debra (16:07)

Let me ask you a question about that. So you’re saying that we we start to see what’s matching our mind, but isn’t it sort of like when you’re looking for a new car and then you see that car everywhere on the road? or you date someone with that car and you think it’s them all the time. You start to see, you know, V VW buses all the time, or I don’t know if that’s the right car, or Teslas or whatever, and you see them everywhere. So it’s almost like does your brain

Dr. Rob (16:15)

Yes.

Debra (16:37)

even though you can see there are other potentials out there, but your brain collapses and only focuses on those threats. It’s like a natural thing to focus on the threat versus the possibility. It’s like a muscle we have to build to to shift that.

Dr. Rob (16:43)

Yes.

Dr. Rob (16:52)

Yeah, the shifting that’s another a whole other matter. But the the function, right? The the yeah, the default mode of the brain is precisely that. That it will pick out things in your your the environment that you’re in that match your internal assumption, the the internal model that you have of what’s real or what’s possible. And yeah. Sure.

Debra (16:55)

Hm. But by default.

Debra (17:14)

So have another question before you go on because this is so good. so let’s put ourselves in this scenario of this person that wants to start their business. They hit the resistance. And now you’re saying the brain is like showing them things of all the reasons why it can’t work, right? Why why it’s not working. You shouldn’t maybe you’ll fail, like it it’s it’s just not good. you’re on the wrong track. And so then we’re in that place of, well, that redirection comes in.

And would the ego function sometimes masked, we call it spiritual masking, masks the ego as a little like spiritual mask, and it says, the universe wants you to go this direction. This isn’t the right time, it’s not meant for you, and that’s where that redirection comes in. So the the ego looks at the threat and then says, well, I guess the universe wants me to do something else. And and then you’ll know that it’s the ego.

if you’re relieved when you give up. If you feel a relief when you give up, then you know it’s fear and ego. And then if you don’t if you feel like still like passionate about that goal and you don’t want to give up, you know that it’s it’s going, you should go further, you know, toward the resistance.

Dr. Rob (18:33)

Yeah, well, you’re describing I I mean, technically it would be considered an ego defense. So the the ego has a lot of defenses to protect the itself and to keep you in your comfort zone. and so that would be rationalization. So you rationalize that that

Debra (18:40)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Debra (18:53)

I like spiritual masking. They use it as spiritual language for or it doesn’t have to be spiritual, but it could be.

Dr. Rob (19:00)

Yeah, exactly. But but it is one of the common ones, right, that people use. It’s like it wasn’t meant to be. I I didn’t want it in the first place. the universe doesn’t want me to have it.

Debra (19:13)

I knew it would work. Everyone told me it wouldn’t work. They were right. What about the idea though that they feel like it’s some other like benevolent force giving them insight? And sometimes that does happen. I’m not discounting that, but the ego tries to use those our spiritual beliefs. the it kind of like I said, it masks itself.

Dr. Rob (19:18)

Yeah.

Debra (19:37)

in the the kind of the phrases like everything happens for a reason and everything happens in your own time and maybe I need to see my chart and see if it’s the right time and date for me to access this this this goal you know maybe my stars aren’t aligned or whatever that interfere and so then we the ego just again the the rationalization it’s spiritual rationalization maybe too that we they use those terms because it sounds so

like otherworldly, like the universe is taking care of me. And but it it is sometime most of the time an excuse not to do the hard stuff.

Dr. Rob (20:17)

It can be, yes. And it

Debra (20:18)

Yeah. Not I like again, it’s I do believe in signs. I do believe sometimes you are on the wrong track and the your your move to the right direction. I mean, that’s why I I had my homeless, manless, and jobless situation happen wait year 30 years ago. But it’s it’s really that but we wanna be careful, like who are we listening to? Are we listening to our ego or are we listening to something more wise within us?

Dr. Rob (20:25)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rob (20:41)

That’s yeah. And that’s really the key. And and and what we are saying through this conversation is that the key is to understand how your mind works so that then you can make a real decision out of free will. And that’s kind of where the conversation is leading us, right? How do we do that? How do we

gain control of such a mind that is so sneaky and so powerful. And that’s why there’s eight billion of us on the planet because it it it functions really well at keeping us alive by helping us stay in our comfort zone in our ego. Our ego keeps us safe. But at the same time, like you say, it limits us to where if we want to break that

barrier of the comfort zone, it’s going to require a little bit of work.

Debra (21:48)

And so what most people do not do, which is what a more evolved person like people that listen to this show are, is they go instead of trying to find the path of least resistance, you know, that’s what we are where our ego wants. I always say the path of least resistance is the path of least existence. Say that ten times fast. But if it it’s like you’re limiting yourself when you do that because you’re only staying in that where it’s comfortable.

But what we don’t do, like I said, we try to power through that resistance, we gotta, you know, overcome it. We gotta think positive, we gotta change the negative, our attitude, we gotta, you know, change the way we feel, raise our vibration or whatever to move through the resistance. But instead, what the wiser place is to step in the witness mind and look at the resistance and see what’s there. And think about how am I responding to this resistance?

Not just how do I get through it, but look, let’s let’s pay attention, let’s slow down a bit. What is what is my mind making this resistance about? Like why it why is it so bad that this thing didn’t work out or it feels kind of flat or I’m hitting this wall? What’s the real threat here? And we talk about this earlier when we were preparing for the show. And we we like you said, the brain is always looking for us to not make a mistake.

So it’s always looking to avoid that pain. And so what we need to figure out what is this, what is our ego putting up this resistance to avoid pain? You know, what pain are we avoiding? And one of the things I learned early on is that we’re not afraid of failure. A lot of people think, I’m afraid of failure. That’s why. But we’re afraid of what people think about us. It’s the shame of failure that we really don’t want to deal with.

And so when we hit that resistance, that’s what we’re tapping into. So we have to figure out what that is. And two examples of that, there’s a movie in the 90s called The Edge, where it’s Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin. They’re lost in the the woods, you know, they were hide hunting or whatever. They were they got lost in the in the wild wilderness. And he said in Anthony Hopkins said the reason why people die in the woods is not because they don’t know what they’re doing or they get lost. It’s

Debra (24:14)

They die of shame. And they don’t, they’re so embarrassed that they got lost in the first place. They’d rather die in the woods than be rescued. So they sabotage it. And so think about that. Like it’s like we think of shame as death, you know, and it doesn’t in for our intellectual mind, that doesn’t make any sense at all. And we’d be like, no way, I’d be fine. But there’s something very ancient in us that is like really driven by that. So

Let’s examine that. What are we afraid of people think about us? What if it was wrong? What if we kept going on this? Like what are we really afraid of? I think that’s the first question we want to ask ourselves. But again, I don’t know if you you could add a little bit here about the witness mind and how it’s not about your ego trying to examine your ego, but this other higher intelligence in our mind that we want to work with.

Dr. Rob (25:08)

Yeah, that’s a good point. The what you’re describing is still kind of the part of the mechanism that keeps us stuck or keeps us in our comfort zone. But what we want to use the the witness mind for is to transcend that. Well, first of all, by observing our mind. So note that we’re not.

Debra (25:22)

Mm-hmm.

Debra (25:35)

Well, that’s what I was saying, like observing like what am I really afraid of? It’s not about this question of should I give up here? But like what is this what’s inside of it more from an ab a a witness standpoint? Like understanding what we’re afraid of. So then we can see it from a different yeah.

Dr. Rob (25:48)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so just like with the ego, let’s define it because you know some people might not be familiar with the concept. So the witness mind is our mind’s ability. Now this is still our mind. it’s not something outside. It’s not like a separate thing that’s that we’re bringing in. we’re all able to do this, but it’s because it’s very subtle. Most people don’t

Debra (25:57)

Okay.

Dr. Rob (26:19)

never define it as a separate function or as a a unique function of the mind. and also we’re never taught. I I never learned this in school. Even in psychology, people rarely spoke about the witness mind. Now recently I’ve heard people talk about metacognition. So meta means above and cognition is our thinking. That’s kind of the concept that we’re it’s above our

thinking and it’s able to observe our thoughts and emotions and behaviors. So let’s say meta awareness, meta consciousness is this witness mind. It’s we’re witnessing our own thoughts, our own emotions, our own behaviors.

Debra (27:07)

W is it like a neutral observer, would you say?

Dr. Rob (27:10)

Almost very much like a neutral like you’re watching a movie or you’re watching television, you’re observing, right? You’re kind of

Debra (27:18)

You’re not identifying with the person, the character that’s wrestling with this decision you’re you’re observing. Just like you s have a friend that you could see clearly what they’re doing, you know, with the dating or with the business that they’re doing. And like a coaches can often see with their client their blind spots because they are the witness versus inside the mind. is that the s that’s kind of the same thing that we we can see we can observe ourselves and have a more objective.

experience of of what we’re what’s going on and and see things we wouldn’t see before if we’re in the subjective experience.

Dr. Rob (27:54)

That’s right. So this is a a simple experiment. You can even kids will get this. think of a giraffe.

Dr. Rob (28:06)

Do you see the giraffe in your mind?

Dr. Rob (28:13)

That second question gets at the witness mind. It’s the one that looked into your mind and said, Yes, I see it, or no, I don’t see it. That’s the see how subtle it is? It’s very subtle and therefore we miss it. But it’s always with us.

Debra (28:32)

It’s always with us. We’re always the witnesses always but we don’t we think we’re so like focused on the th thoughts and our process and our emotions and us and the eye that we forget that there’s someone going, yeah, taking rec taking notes in the background.

Dr. Rob (28:49)

Yeah, that’s it. And and you can cultivate this skill. just like anything with practice, you get better at it. So you’re able to observe your own mind. And what that does then, it gives us this freedom to guide it. Because we see where we’re obsessing or we see where we’re being wrong or or thinking in negative ways or in limited ways or in

Or very much stuck in ego. We can observe that. Right? We can start to define where our thinking is limited by our ego. And that’s what we want. Not judging, not necessarily trying to fix, but really learning what is the mind doing and how does it work? That way we can guide it from that higher mind, from that witness mind. We can direct it.

And say, what would be a better approach than the way I’m doing it or the way I’m seeing the situation? What would be a more creative way of approaching this need for success, this need for love, this need for connectedness?

Debra (30:11)

Well, I think that like recently I had a a lot of resistance show up and things just see that that in I didn’t think it was in me. I was like, why aren’t these things falling into place? Like just weird, weird random things that were interfering with my plans, my evil plans. And there were good plans actually. And I remember asking myself, like, what is going on? What is going on? And and then a fox went

in front of my window in my office here. We’re on the ground floor. And I said, the trickster. And then I realized in my observing mind that I was really attached to making this project work. And that I was like, so I’ve been putting a lot of it has to work, it has to work. And when you’re in a dual-stated mind and you’re wanting it to work so bad, guess what you bring with it?

More of the energy, it’s not gonna work. It’s not gonna work. And it’s going to almost like sabotage it in a way, but you’re not really sabotaging. You’re it’s it’s giving you back where your energy is. So when we’re really attached to a goal, especially when we want to do something great, we want to start a business, we want to do a new project, we wanna find love, we wanna, you know, get things in our life that we want. If we’re too attached, we’re bringing that unconscious doubt with us and that fear that we’re not going to get it, the shame that we’re not going to get it.

And then it shows up in the world. So if you can look at the results and say, this is showing me my mind. And why am I getting this? Then it’s really cool. And then the and the we always love the symbolic life. Like the trickster went by, and I’m like, the trickster, the fox represents when you’re too attached, it shows up like as like a to throw things off for you. And I kind of felt like these things, kind of odd things kept happening on.

What is going on? And it’s the trickster. And the trickster is always reminding us to relax. And that what we we tend to do, and I I fall at this a lot, is we think our little ego is gonna do all the work, that we’re gonna strategize our way for the plan, that we’re gonna figure out the right strategy, we’re gonna do the right actions, we’re gonna act the right way. Like we can for the ego thinks it can do all the work when actually our this witness, this higher self is actually.

Debra (32:38)

bringing everything to us.

Dr. Rob (32:40)

Yeah. Yes.

Debra (32:42)

How would you describe that from that witness mind of that like you know, the egos kind of bringing in like you were talking about earlier that everything starts with a thought and then lead kind of like a chain reaction when we’re trying to create something?

Dr. Rob (32:58)

absolutely. and the that’s one of the functions of the witness mind, that it shows us how our thoughts are creating our reality. In other words, we’re we’re observing it directly. i in other words, we we don’t have to believe or just believe. We can learn it directly from observing our own mind. That if I think I will fail, that creates an anxiety in me.

And I’m I’m able to observe the anxiety. And he note that I’m not trying to suppress it, I’m not trying to fix it, I’m observing it and learning from it. So if I say or in my mind or I have the thought I will fail, that creates the anxiety, the apprehension in me, because of all the consequences that my mind makes up about what does failure mean to me, then that then.

Trains my mind or or directs my mind to look for things that match that assumption. So I’m going to procrastinate, I’m going to avoid as much as possible, I’m going to make excuses. Exactly.

Debra (34:16)

Like why would you try if you know you’re going to fail, right? Like why would you even try? Or put a lot of effort into it.

Dr. Rob (34:24)

Which results in missed opportunities. And I can see it. I’m witnessing all this from that witness mind. So I’m learning directly that my thoughts create my reality. So I’m not because I’m not judging, I’m simply learning. Then I asked the question, what’s a better thought to have? A more creative thought to have.

That will give me the results that I’m really desiring or that I really see as beneficial to me and others.

Debra (35:03)

Well, can I ask you the that’s a good question because we could think positive and there’s a lot of people that can think positive and and believe in themselves and they create really, you know, great successes or find someone, but they’re doing it out of ego. They’re still attached to the thing, or they think they’re better because they have those things. We see a lot of people that are in love with their own success and brag about their success as if they’re better now and the their identity is connected to it.

So when we think about changing our thoughts, we have to change who is thinking the thought as well or what perspective we’re coming from, right?

Dr. Rob (35:38)

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, the the idea of thinking positive works to a certain extent when you’re an ego. It’s really meant for those that are have mastered their mind. Then because once you master your mind, in other words, once you understand how it works, then you can use that directive of

I’m going to think the thoughts that will generate the kind of reality that I want to experience. So once you master your mind, absolutely use that the the think positive principle. But before that

Debra (36:23)

When you say master your mind, can you elaborate on that a little bit? Like what does that mean to master your mind? How would you how would you just

Dr. Rob (36:29)

That you that you understand that your thoughts create your reality. Right through

Debra (36:34)

That you’re basically the the master of your domain versus the captain of the ship.

Dr. Rob (36:39)

Well, let’s say the ordinary situation is this that when we’re an ego, we’re letting the external dictate our reality because we’re saying I will only be happy and I will only feel successful when these external circumstances are in place. Note what is going on there. We’re saying the external has more power than my

Create my reality. In other words, the external holds the key to my mental state of happiness. That’s giving away our power completely. When we say, no, my thoughts create my reality, or when we understand that principle, I can generate happy thoughts on my own, just like we can generate negative thoughts. Well, that’s a whole other podcast, isn’t it?

Debra (37:33)

What about the unconscious mind? What a but I mean we are Jung, talk about Jung here, and that’s the the I always think of the mindset as showing us our default. You know, and just changing it on the surface. We have to that’s why I think going toward the resistance and I on uncoupling the ego from the pattern and understanding what pattern is in place, that’s deeper work.

Dr. Rob (37:39)

But

Debra (38:03)

it’s deeper introspection. like I re I told you that story where I yeah, yeah, it’s a different conversation, but we have to go, you know, know that we can go there. And I think the main thing is don’t just change your thoughts so you can have a better ego. It’s like I I went and maybe that could be a first step for people to create something just from their thoughts, you know, and just to prove, wow, I thought positive and I got that parking space or I got

Dr. Rob (38:06)

Yeah, it’s another conversation.

Dr. Rob (38:25)

exactly. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta you gotta start there.

Debra (38:31)

You start to play with that idea. And then when you’re really up to big stuff and you want to transform your life in a big way, you need deeper work. You need the deeper, it’s not just thinking positive. It’s like really changing your whole identity because the the default identity, the ego has created this character is based in that comfort zone. So when you leave the comfort zone, you not only have to change your thoughts, you have to change your whole perspective of who you’re being, which is a again, a much bigger topic.

that we talk about and we teach in our Second Horizon program that we are launching this month. If you haven’t found out about it, there’s information in the show notes below about people that want to step out of that comfort zone and create something new with their life and the mindset, the depth work, the shadow work, the the symbolism, dream work that helps us know who we really are, beyond just that conditioned self. So we’re not reacting to life and we’re not just

almost fooling ourselves and staying in the same pattern and our egos just using the spiritual spiritual masking to kind of make it sound pretty, make it sound like it was meant to be, but we’re stuck in the same place and we wanna really be help people have the tools to get really deep with this and and really master their thoughts and their mind on a deep level.

Dr. Rob (39:56)

But just to finish this idea of our thoughts create our reality. So it’s we continue along that path, let’s say once we understand and we can observe our our thoughts creating our reality through that witness mind, then we start to ask, what is the vision of what I want to create from that higher vantage point? Like what is what is my full potential?

That’s that becomes the vision. This is what I need to move towards. And whatever your vision is, you’re acting out of that vision instead of instead out of ego. Instead of I mean mine. It’s a higher purpose. It’s a higher vision. It’s the true self, as you you said. It’s the true.

Debra (40:48)

It’s not just about you and survival, it’s about pr sharing something of your expression of the divine in the world, of your divine gifts.

Dr. Rob (40:57)

That’s right. You’re you’re acting out of a higher purpose. Right. That’s that’s the kind of the one way of expressing it, that you’re acting out of higher purpose instead of out of ego needs. So the ego what does it need? acknowledgement, confirmation. Yeah, of course. Nothing wrong with it, but know that when you’re acting that way, you’re acting out of ego.

out of limitation and and it will get you things, but it will be things for that to reinforce the ego, to help the ego feel better, help you feel more solid and all that. Nothing wrong with that again. But if you want to act at a higher purpose, then that vision guides your actions and allows you to act in the world in a much more powerful and creative way.

Debra (41:35)

Yeah.

Debra (41:53)

And we don’t want to look at resistance as something’s wrong with us or there’s, you know, we’re you know, there’s something I need to fix about myself to get my goal. It’s just the resistance shows up when we’re not conscious of what we’re putting into our vision. And the resistance is there to show us this is where you’re a little off base here. This is where you’re attached, this is where you’re not believing in your in what you’re dreaming like it’s showing you your mind instead of thinking this is bad.

And I’m resisting. Everyone experiences resistance. It’s a sign of growth. It’s a sign of that you’re you’re moving and evolving and you need it to evolve. there’s this kind of idea in the personal development world that they say, like, like be with the flow. I want to be in the flow. But I would often find the flow in their terms is the comfort zone. And then you were saying the flow is really comes from.

transcendence that we can actually be in the flow, but we have to transcend the ego first.

Dr. Rob (42:58)

Exactly. So flow is for the person that that has mastered their mind. Right. Then then the flow makes sense. But if we enter or try to enter flow from the I mean mind, ego, all we’re doing is creating more of that ego function, right? more limitation. Yeah.

Debra (43:23)

I want it to be easy. I don’t want it to be hard, right?

Yeah, and it and it it i it’s so weird that we it becomes easy if you face the hard stuff. And it becomes harder if you don’t if you just go for easy all the time. It just you make it harder on yourself. So it’s counterintuitive. So what are your last words, Rob? we have a quote too.

Dr. Rob (43:46)

Yeah, th th the key is I think the key is this idea of ego versus

Higher purpose or or higher self. Always distinguish that. Are my desires, are my actions taking taken from ego or from the ego state of mind? Or yes, or are they really coming from this higher purpose, higher self? That makes a difference. Then you can, once you’re coming from that higher state of mind.

Debra (44:13)

Or a lower desire.

Dr. Rob (44:26)

Then you can think about flow and you can think about manifesting and and positive thinking and all those things work because you’re acting then as the self, not as an individual ego, just reinforcing this cocoon of safety and comfort.

Debra (44:48)

And I think the best thing everyone can do is do something that scares them, do something out of their comfort zone that because it makes your life have meaning and makes your life fulfilled. People look for fulfilling, like I just have to find the right career. No, do something that’s difficult. you know, Jung says that people will do anything, no matter how absurd absurd, in order to face their own souls. And so, you know, we’re we’re we’re

We’re wired to c stay in comfort. And we have to if we want to have that extraordinary life that we really want, that we no have no regrets at the end of our life. We’re like glad we we it was such a ride and it was you know, ups and downs and exciting and adventurous. it really it comes down to being uncomfortable and challenging ourselves. And and that was that’s what makes life beautiful.

And then we look back and we’re like, wow, I can’t believe how strong I am and how resilient I am. I mean, I look back, I was scared to death leaving the corporate world. And now I look back, I’m so like proud of myself. Wow, what did I create? You know, on my own, like with my own mind, with my own hands, and and you know, it it just really, really rewarding. Of course, having Rob as my partner makes it easy too, but

but the you know, you just don’t you feel that way too, Rob? Like this kind of this our company that we created, it it’s it’s it’s like ours. You know, we didn’t get in inherited from a family member and it’s it’s ours that we created out of nothing. And what an amazing thing to do. And especially when everyone told us no one’s gonna like your stuff. It’s too deep.

Dr. Rob (46:30)

Yeah, that’s right. Well, everyone has more potential than they know. That’s that’s the truth, right? And and once you try to do what’s considered impossible for most people and even for yourself, right, you you see that that potential is there.

Debra (46:55)

What do you have? Any words to talk about? I you didn’t add anything about Second Horizon. Are you excited about our new program starting this month? And and this really fits in with that idea of of a fresh new start, of coming from a new place.

Dr. Rob (47:12)

Yeah, I mean my excitement is about the kind of people this work attracts. they’re they’re amazing people that have big dreams and are really ready to change the world.

And that that to me is exciting.

Debra (47:36)

Yeah, it’s incredible being around people that are outside of the comfort zone. And there’s not many of us. if you look at the world, the percentage of people that take risks and do something different and dare to do something adventurous and and and meaningful. So it’s a very special group. So we hope you join us. Find out more about it in the show notes. Anyway, have a great rest of your day.

Remember, is it resistance or redirection? You have to ask who’s asking the question. And if it’s the ego, the ego loves the redirection. If it’s the true self, it says, let’s see what this resistance is all about. Let’s unpack it. Let’s let’s uncouple ourselves from it. Let’s really see where our mind is not aligned with our vision and and then realign it and magic happens.

And then it be does become effortless. But the I think the most effort is the working with the mind and battling. The battle in your own mind is the toughest part of starting anything new.

All right. Well, have a great rest of your week. We’ll see you next week on Jung on Purpose. And have a great time. Do something crazy this week. Change your life. All right. Take care.

Dr. Rob (48:44)

Absolutely.

Dr. Rob (48:52)

See you soon.