Why We Betray Ourselves to Belong

Episode Transcript

Debra (00:01.058)
Hello, welcome everyone to Jung On Purpose. I am Deborah Maldonado.

Dr. Rob (00:07.12)
I’m Dr. Rob, welcome.

Debra (00:09.064)
And we are continuing our series on early development. And we talked about early childhood in the past few episodes, emotions and our emotional template. And today we’re entering the world of adolescence. And we’re talking about one of our new systems that we developed based on Jungian psychology and Eastern philosophy called the archetypal family field. And we’re to talk about adolescence and those junior high, high school age,

what is happening with our identity, our persona, what we’re putting in our shadow initially, and how that affects us in life in the future. how we’re, they’re like the building blocks of our adult life. We’re starting to evolve away from the family. But before we begin, great content today. We really request that you do us a great favor by clicking subscribe on the video if you’re watching us on YouTube.

Or if you are listening to us on one of the podcast services, don’t forget to subscribe so you get every episode. And if you have comments, please leave them. We’d love to hear what you think about this episode or any episode. Love to hear your feedback and questions you have. So Rob, adolescence is not what we think it is. I think when I always thought of adolescence, it’s like, between nine and 11 or 12, know, just that really, you know, when the hormones start flying.

But you’re saying the research shows it lasts a lot longer.

Dr. Rob (01:39.65)
Yeah, and there’s different ways of parceling it out. But neuroscience is giving us a new window on adolescence. And it appears that our brain really isn’t done developing and becoming, let’s say a mature brain until the early 30s. So our youth

Debra (02:06.754)
We’re immature for a long time.

Dr. Rob (02:08.748)
Exactly. Our youth lasts a lot longer than most of us think, neurologically anyway. Socially might be a different story. Some people never grew up like me or us.

Debra (02:23.854)
Well, before you go in deeper, let’s talk about the archetypal family field and just a little overview of what that is.

Dr. Rob (02:28.804)
Yeah.

Dr. Rob (02:33.998)
Yeah, so if we think about development, where does development take place? And we know from science that it’s always a gene environment interaction that we’re seeing in development. How we develop as human beings is not simply based on your genes. A lot of people kind of get the impression because of the news and the way they report genetics, that your genetics is your destiny. And that’s not the case.

It’s always a brain gene environment interaction that turns certain genes on and off depending on the needs and the social environmental pressures. So the family is really that first field that we interact with as newborn babies, right? We were born into this womb of the family and that, yeah.

Debra (03:29.554)
container almost right this like, house you’re in you’re living together, eating together, sleeping together, celebrating events together, getting punished together, getting in trouble.

Dr. Rob (03:38.233)
Yeah.

Dr. Rob (03:43.018)
Exactly. Yes. And the this is the interesting thing from the Jungian depth psychology perspective is that we internalize that family system and carry it with us for the rest of our lives. And that’s really important. Think about this. The way you do relationships, the kind of work that you do the meaning that you find in your life.

the way you interpret experiences, it all has to do with that early family field. So if you don’t understand what happened and what kind of impressions and assumptions you were exposed to or absorbed during that period of development, then you’re not able to take the reins of your life because those

in early imprints that in internalized family system they’re the ones calling the or the shots in your life especially in relationships and in

Debra (04:52.47)
And so just one thing to point out that it’s not things we’re conscious of. So when we think of this family field, as we call it, this field of consciousness that we’re carrying with us, it’s invisible. So there’s this invisible field that’s influencing who we choose as friends, who we choose as partners, what kind of jobs we choose, how we act in the job, who we are in the world, our friends, how we fit into society.

And then who triggers us? And what we think is possible and all our personal power and spirituality, all that is unconscious to us. And so it’s not just, I know my mother was mean to me and critical, so I need to think positive. This goes way deeper than that. goes to the things you’re not aware of that you absorbed. And a lot of things that we get from our family are communicated unconsciously. So they’re implied.

So many times they don’t verbally communicate to us what their fears are, they think about life. Many times they do, you hear the narrative in your family and all that. But there’s a subtle, like we feel and notice when our parents are stressed and maybe not be conscious of it, but we’re absorbing and learning their emotional states and what’s right and wrong and who they hang out with, how they approach money.

how they approach each other in relationships, if they believe in marriage, if not, and faithfulness and all these things. And we just remember what we’re conscious of, which is a very tiny percentage of all the things in our field. So very important that it’s an invisible field, but we can make it conscious.

Dr. Rob (06:37.189)
Absolutely, that’s our saving grade.

Debra (06:38.87)
And what, and the goal is to use those patterns for, to like, not just fix them, like, I want to make them better. It’s to understand those patterns and then use them for their potential. So there’s potential in every pattern. And we, that’s what we look at. We don’t think of them as wounds or something pathological. think of them as a normal human being developing in the world and learning how to get along with everyone and surviving. then.

We, those of us who are seekers, you listen to this program are probably thinking, I want more to life than just repeating the same patterns all the time. And so that’s why this family field system that we developed is really powerful. It just came out this year. If you want more information, we have a link in the bio to, and the show notes to check it out. So let’s talk about adolescence. So you mentioned that, you know,

We all think it just happens when we’re 11 or 12 and then we go through puberty and then we’re done. And then we’re like young adults. But you’re saying that the research is showing that some psychology models talk about adolescents lasting much longer.

Dr. Rob (07:53.199)
Yeah, I mean, if we define adolescence as kind of that period where you’re not a child anymore, but you’re still developing your sense of self.

Socially you’re developing your persona, your identity and kind of identifying where you belong or you’re starting to experiment, where do I belong? And making those really important decisions about whether you’re going to live alone or live in a partnership or play it by ear like they

Debra (08:31.906)
Even what you’re going to do for the rest of your life, you start planning like you’re going to go to college. so 10, like 10 or 11, I think 11 is closer to most people, but I don’t know, everyone’s age just differently. it’s that time when we stopped playing with each other, like in games and we start being more adults and hang out and listen to music. we talk about boys or girls and maybe some people dabble with smoking or testing, drinking, you know, doing things, a smoking pot or whatever.

Dr. Rob (08:35.448)
people do right now they’re just gone.

Dr. Rob (08:44.665)
Yeah.

Debra (09:02.058)
and, you, you leave this family field, this system, and then you’re going into a larger ecosystem of your social circle. And so now it’s like, but it’s still tiny circle. It’s like a, like a limited circle, basically local, basically who you go to school with in your local town. And now you’re in this bigger field of, how do I belong in this field now? How do I.

How do I fit in with everyone? We tried to fit in with our family. Now we have to fit in with this larger body of people that’s very diverse and has very different backgrounds than us and different parents. So it’s a very confusing time because you’re leaving, you’re not a kid anymore, but you’re not an adult yet. So you’re in that limbic, not limbic, liminal state where you’re in between.

Dr. Rob (09:56.059)
Very much so. So between nine and 10 on average, right? Some people earlier, some people later, but around that age, there’s a shift that happens where you start to think of yourself outside of the family system. You’re still very much connected to the family, of course, and you need them and they need you, but you start to associate and identify with peers.

This is a game changer for the human being because peers come from different backgrounds with different experiences with different personalities and you all of the sudden are seeing what’s available to you in this society in the culture beyond the family because the family gives you a certain sense of what you should and shouldn’t do and who you

should be and how you should be.

Debra (10:59.448)
But also they have an unconditional love typically in a family. Like your family loves you and accepts you. They’re not going to kick you out because you’re not cool or reject you because you did like there. It’s very, except accepting in a way and most families. And, and then, then you go into this other field where not everyone loves you or not. Everyone, thinks you’re, you know, or calls you not cool. You know, maybe you’re the coolest kid with your.

Dr. Rob (11:16.781)
Absolutely.

Debra (11:29.292)
You know, you’re the only child and everyone goaded go all over you. And then you go to school and everyone thinks you’re a nerd. Like, who are you? Who do you think you are? And it’s very confusing for a person because now you’re in this bigger, it’s almost like from the river to the sea, you’re out in the sea of world. You know, you’re not in this tight little narrow winding road of, with barriers and guardrails. It’s like this wide open space.

that you can get lost, you feel lost in a little bit, and then you’re trying to really figure out. Do I want to be what group I want to be in? I, know, I, I, one thing we were talking about earlier is I noticed when we were kids in elementary school, there weren’t really clicks in my age. maybe it is now, but there weren’t a lot of like heavy clicks, like all the kids got along with each other. There were a couple like outliers, but when you go into junior high, like everyone kind of gets their little.

their little pockets of are you the cheerleader? Are you with the brains? Are you with the drama club? Are you with the jocks? You know, I don’t know what they call them now, the athletes. And we used to have the burnouts and the jocks, you know, the two different, you know, type of people. And so we start to like segregate ourselves almost like we do in society as adults, we kind of have pockets of who we hang out.

And so that’s really where we do we consciously choose who we who we pick? Or do you think it’s an unconscious gravitation toward toward that?

Dr. Rob (13:07.8)
Yeah, I think it’s combination because really from the Jungian perspective, what we’re seeing here is the development of the persona, which is that identity that we consciously identify with and we choose, right? We say, I like these guys or these, this group, and I identify with them, as well as what do we push away? What am I not? And those choices are made.

both kind of conscious and unconscious because we’re choosing it in a certain sense, but the choices are coming from a lot of the earlier assumptions that we’re carrying and have internalized from our family as well. So that internalized system, the family system is playing a big role in the choices that we make in this time.

comes in our identity as persona. This is who I am as a personality. And it begins that formation as well as that shadow of who am I not? What do I push away? What do I not belong to? Even what we hate or what we say, those are my enemies or my rivals.

Debra (14:32.398)
So I have a question that just came up. So I’m thinking about my growing up and my friends. And my group of friends, there’s like the neutrals. They’re not in any category. They’re just kind of like the leftovers. So my friends weren’t like cheerleaders. They weren’t into sports. They weren’t into the bands. They were just kind of a just general, no click kind of place.

I mean, some of them were burnouts, but they were like on the fringe. But my group of friends was just, I would say, the neutrals. What does that mean? Does that mean that people in that kind of neutral, not a fixed category, are they highly intelligent and they don’t want to fit into a category? Or are they more like they don’t know who they are and they’re just kind of hanging out with whoever wants to be friends with them. They’re not really defining themselves. What would you say that’s about?

Dr. Rob (15:27.162)
Yeah, mean, right. Just kind of speaking broadly, everything in in sociology, for example, you know, you apply the normal curve, it’s called the normal curve, because most people will fall into the middle. And that’s what you’re describing kind of people that don’t really don’t gravitate towards the extremes.

Debra (15:28.172)
Psychoanalyze me, Rob.

Debra (15:55.31)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rob (15:55.365)
They’re not the super smart or the super talented or the superstars, but they’re not also the people that get left behind and that don’t fit in.

Debra (16:04.344)
We’re the ones that are teased a lot like we weren’t like loser like the losers, you know, or the weirdos, you know, we were just kind of bland, like we weren’t like almost like ignored in a way, you know, and maybe that was by choice, like not to stand out maybe.

Dr. Rob (16:18.66)
Well, yeah, there’s safety in numbers, right? We see it in nature. Most herd animals and humans, we can think of ourselves in those terms biologically anyway. We tend to gravitate towards the middle, the mean, regression to the mean, meaning if we have a skill or a talent that makes us stand out, sometimes we’ll muffle that.

Debra (16:20.878)
Hmm

Dr. Rob (16:47.184)
talent or skill so that we fit in more towards the middle. And vice versa, right? If we’re too low on something, we try to compensate for it by doing other things.

Debra (17:00.766)
this kind of felt like we were more authentic, like we weren’t posers, we were just being ourselves. I always felt like my relationships were very authentic. So maybe that’s part of it too. We weren’t masking around each other and maybe I was more involved than I thought. But I mean, that’s kind of like authentic in a way, right? You’re just being yourself. And so those of you who are the mediocre, what do they call it? The normal, the middle of the road.

Dr. Rob (17:14.384)
that we’re expressing our mediocrity.

Dr. Rob (17:22.83)
Yeah, exactly.

Debra (17:30.254)
the blending, the generic group.

Dr. Rob (17:31.472)
In psychology, the word typical is used as the appropriate

Debra (17:38.511)
the typical, so we’re the just the typical. So yeah, and so yeah, the development of that persona, maybe, because maybe is not to stand out. Maybe it is to just be yourself and, you know, kind of be low on the radar. Like none of my friends were like popular. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe most of us fall in that round, but we still have a persona that we’re building. And we can be authentic.

Dr. Rob (17:54.065)
typical expectations, typical functioning, typical grades.

Dr. Rob (18:05.518)
Yeah, there is always an identity.

Debra (18:07.33)
But we need to have like this identity that we put out. so biologically, adolescence is challenging because of our hormones are all over the place. We’re emotional. We’re making a lot of emotional decisions. We’re very like reactive. And what’s the symbolic part of adolescence, Rob?

Dr. Rob (18:10.84)
yet.

Dr. Rob (18:31.108)
Yeah, so we see that biology plays a big role in kind of defining us as far as strength, as far as level of masculinity or athleticism, feminism, all these things. Those are often biological markers that people can perceive and understand and kind of we fall into line along those.

patterns. But then psychologically, right, you’re talking about grades, you’re talking about intelligence, social intelligence, emotional intelligence. How good are you at making friends at, you know, yeah.

Debra (19:15.458)
That’s a big thing in junior. Do you have enough friends? You have a lot of friends. Kind of a, yeah, are you popular? Are you not? Or are you just a loner? know?

Dr. Rob (19:19.524)
being popular or unpopular. Yeah, and being a loner, not necessarily bad. It just simply means you’re a certain personality type, perhaps, more introverted, artistic, pensive, poetic, those kind of personalities. They’re comfortable being alone and they require more time to be alone to do that kind of thinking.

feeling. But symbolically, what’s happening then is we’re being shaped by internal forces that most psychologists don’t even address. That’s why we love up the Jungian model, because it’s getting deeper into the archetypal patterns. So archetypal patterns, are universal patterns that have to do with what kind of dreams are we

Now we know as children, have powerful, symbolic archetypal dreams that we often still remember. know, often when I talk to students, they’re telling me, I remember these powerful dreams when I was a child and I still remember them today. And here’s what they were. And we use them to kind of navigate our life.

They point us in certain directions. Even if we don’t get an interpretation, let’s say of the dream, often the feeling itself of the emotional intensity of these dreams shift our thinking and shift our psyche. They replenish it from the inside.

Debra (21:11.854)
Well, when we talk about like the myth, the kind of the roles that everyone plays, we start to pick our roles. Wouldn’t it also be the symbolic of archetypal symbols like the leader, the follower, those type of things that start to form in the social structure? And it like happens automatically. So it’s this unconscious formation of a social structure. And the question we’re asking is who do I need to become?

Dr. Rob (21:29.806)
Yeah, we…

Debra (21:41.72)
to belong here.

Dr. Rob (21:43.633)
Who do I need to become to belong here? And that has to do with survival because evolutionary kind of the evolutionary perspective, right? We see that we needed to be accepted by the group so that we could get our share of the spoils, the meat, the food that was available to us.

If we were rejected, right, if we were excommunicated, if we were left out in the ice, or, you in the night, we would not survive. Therefore, these instincts are very powerful in us. And they’re still

Debra (22:23.758)
But also there’s mating too that happens in junior high and high school. We start being interested in the opposite sex or the same sex, depending on what your preference is. we start to like want to kind of, that’s also ancient, the partnership, partnering symbolically.

Dr. Rob (22:41.124)
Well, that’s one of the definitions of adolescence is that we mature sexually, although socially we’re not prepared to reproduce.

Debra (22:46.52)
Mm-hmm.

We’re matured sexually, but socially we’re not very mature, yeah.

Dr. Rob (22:53.402)
Right? But physically we are, we can reproduce. And so it’s a dangerous period for us because we have this power of sexuality now, but we don’t have all the social kind of understanding yet. We’re still developing.

Debra (23:13.24)
So what would, when we talk about roles and us picking that persona and how we belong, how does our family feel, the initial family feel, the smaller field, the sibling rivalries, the parents, the complexes from our parents, all those kind of templates and patterns that we learn early in life, how does that affect our life as a teenager? And I would think that

sometimes we would reject a role that maybe our parents implied on us and then we want to be different. We don’t want to be the princess that wears. My sister, for example, was like the cheerleader girl and then she became very goth. I the dark clothes in the dark. She wanted to dress more cool like that. She wasn’t the little pigtail girl anymore. And so we kind of develop our own style in a way.

And many times we do it in answer to the early conditioning. So if the house was really disruptive growing up, maybe in our social world, we try to be all pinned up or look really together because we want to create the opposite of what our family did. So I wanted to talk about that a little bit of how our early family feel now.

Dr. Rob (24:16.313)
Absolutely.

Debra (24:38.346)
impacts the adolescent choosing because we’re not choosing from a blank slate. We’re coming with this inherited pattern.

Dr. Rob (24:39.791)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rob (24:45.808)
That’s right. So a simple model would be that the family gives us the expectations, right? They have expectations of us that are communicated both verbally, non-verbally. They’re communicated just through being around the family that we expect this of you, right? And you’re playing a certain role from birth to…

nine within the family. You might be the black sheep of the family. You might be the golden child. You might be the soother, the peacemaker, those kind of things, right? We play these roles within the family system that really are coming from archetypal patterns. So Yong says, we’re entering, as we enter life, we’re entering the hero’s journey.

Right. At this point, we’re very much a part of the clan, part of the family. We’re playing our role, doing the shores, whatever we’re instructed to do, playing along and doing our work. In the school system, once we leave the house and we start to enter beyond nine into 10 and those teenage years, now we’re still tied to the family, but we’re outside.

that those constraints. And so we have to now adapt those early expectations to this outer world of peers, of teachers, of society, of culture that is new to us. And so that period of adolescence really starts to put pressure on us to define ourselves.

Debra (26:38.936)
So can you give me an example of that?

Dr. Rob (26:41.368)
Yeah, if you go to, let’s say, a top-notch school, for example, and you’re not able to keep up with the curriculum,

Debra (26:56.11)
Because your parents expect you to excel? Is that what you’re saying? Okay. So the expectation is you’re going to be successful. You’re going to be smart. You’re going to excel because you’re going to go to the best schools in the world that we can afford. Yeah.

Dr. Rob (26:58.404)
Exactly.

Dr. Rob (27:09.722)
Yeah. Most of us will, we’ll find a way to adapt and compensate somehow for our situation. What I noticed in working with kids was that when they were put in situations where they didn’t fit in, that’s when you would see behavioral problems. But it wasn’t so much that they had ADHD or, you know, kind of oppositional

a behavior disorder or these kinds of things, it was simply that they were, it was a mismatch for them. The environment that they were in in the school didn’t fit the expectations they were bringing in from the family system or the expectations that had been communicated to them of what was expected for them. And therefore they had no other way to compensate except to

physically act out.

Debra (28:10.904)
So the environment, when you say environment, are you talking about the teachers, the other kids you didn’t fit in? Is that what you’re saying? You didn’t feel accepted in there for some reason? Like a poor kid getting placed in a top-notch school because they got a special grant or something, or rich relative. And so they’re in this different, and the parents are betting on that kid to fit in. But then he’s around these people that are completely

Dr. Rob (28:13.991)
the environment would be the school.

Dr. Rob (28:18.478)
Yeah, yeah, the. Exactly. Yeah.

Debra (28:40.588)
different and trying to fit in and maybe the kids reject him because he’s not a pedigree like the other snooty little kids there, right? so the kid sabotages it. Like look at, you know, it’s a great example of that is Goodwill Hunting. Remember he was so smart and he fit, should have gone to MIT, but his early environment didn’t fit that environment. Is that what you’re saying? Like sometimes, and then he,

Dr. Rob (28:58.352)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Rob (29:08.26)
Yes.

Debra (29:09.176)
would sabotage it, he would hang out with his friends, his peers, because he felt like he belonged with them because of his childhood, but his potential was thwarted because he wasn’t accepted into this bigger potential.

Dr. Rob (29:23.022)
Yes, and we see a lot of that because the institution of education is very systematized and as human beings there’s a huge variety of approaches to learning and how you learn and how you express your intelligence. So some kids have artistic intelligence, music intelligence, visual spatial intelligence, athletic intelligence,

all these different kinds of ways of expressing their power, which doesn’t fit the standard model that you have to sit still for six hours.

Debra (30:02.71)
Especially boys, right? They’re not meant to just sit, right? Women, girls are easily to like sit and they’re more, you know, just kind of their energy is, they’re not as hyper.

Dr. Rob (30:10.98)
Maybe that’s why we’re seeing, yeah, they’re excelling. Now women are excelling in academia, whereas men are falling behind. Often it starts early on because of these kind of rigid expectations that everyone should learn the same and the same things. let’s say when we look at these mismatches,

It teaches us a lot about our human nature. And this is important for understanding our responses to technologies as technology begins to shape and kind of make our society different.

Debra (30:59.198)
we’re talking to AI like it’s a person now. it’s like this other we’re going to have a future episode we talk about technology and social media, and that type of impact on our site on our persona as well. But yeah, that

Dr. Rob (31:01.636)
Yeah, we’re talking.

Dr. Rob (31:11.374)
Yeah, our human, our human instincts and our human nature tends to get left behind. But, you know, it’s still there. It’s always there. It’s always ready to go.

Debra (31:24.568)
So to sum up what we’re doing as we leave our family to go into the social field, and we’re still connected to our family because junior high, high school, we’re still living in the house. Like we’re still under 18, under the roof of our family. So it’s kind of a midway point between, it’s like a transitional point. So we’re getting out, we’re socializing, we’re building relationships with our peers and preparing us for adulthood, because we’re not going to live in our parents forever.

Although that’s happening now, you never know. But what I like about this, there’s a quote here, is by the time a young person enters adolescence, they’re not simply becoming themselves, they’re becoming themselves in response to the initial family field. it’s not like we say, a blank slate where you’re going, I decide I’m gonna be a cheerleader, I’m gonna be the smartest kid in class, or I’m going to hang out with the jocks or be an athlete all of sudden.

It’s like in response to it. we’re unconsciously either rejecting our family or complying with their messaging or somewhere in between.

Dr. Rob (32:33.646)
Yeah, and either way…

It’s a decision that we’re making in the context of the family. In other words, we’re either identifying with those expectations and saying, yes, I’m going to try to live up to these expectations or we’re rejecting them. But either way, we’re caught. We’re caught in that system because, again, we internalize it. Meaning, it’s not even necessary that our parents keep

Debra (32:43.224)
Yeah.

Dr. Rob (33:06.414)
being that way or telling us and communicating those expectations to us. It’s that we’ve internalized them. Now they’re part of us. We kind of expect it of ourselves and therefore it creates an inner conflict when we push it away or even when we identify with it because often we have our own individual creative impulse to do certain things but because of the pressure of conforming to the family.

then we’re caught in that internal conflict. And that becomes part of the shadow as well.

Debra (33:43.393)
And so the first, these two stages, the early childhood and then the adolescence, we’re focused outward. We’re trying to fit in with this like 3D world where we’re looking at all these personalities and we’re not really choosing because we’re letting the environment influence us. So we’re getting very influenced. It’s not coming like in us because everything’s like a hologram in a way.

but we’re allowing the world, our ego’s not strong enough yet to really like make these decisions. So what we’re doing is we’re building the ego. We’re building a sense of volition, of power, over time, gradually, over these years. And then the next episode we’ll talk about, the, the ego starts getting more solid, 18 to 27, 18 to 25, 26.

where we’re really not now we’re building our career and our relationships. And, and so again, the ego is being developed through this whole, whole element. And I think I’m not a psychologist, but I would say that our emotional template, we talk about that being very early on. So that’s the foundation, and then all the stories and narratives and our persona and the shadow are all like, part of a larger development for us. So

We want to underscore that we don’t stop creating patterns when we’re nine. We’re like, okay, we’re done, our early life patterns. We just need to go back to our childhood. We have to examine our whole life and who we chose as friends, who we continue to choose as friends. So very, very cool conversation. I can’t wait to continue to talk about early adulthood, early or late youth, guess, or late adolescence and talk about that.

impact because it’s really more of what we remember the most and how it’s forming our life right now.

Dr. Rob (35:44.002)
I just want to say even though you’re not a psychologist, you’re a writer and writers are often the best psychologists because they know how to observe and they’re always paying attention to how people speak and what they do.

Debra (35:58.382)
I think introverts are great psychologists because we all are, we’re always very observant and then extroverts seem to be like facing outward more all the time and introverts are kind of, and reading more. But yeah, so I think it’s an introverted thing too. And most of our coaches that we take our training are introverts, but we turn them into extroverts when they start going out there.

Anyway, we’ll see you next week for our next episode. We go into that age 18 to 25, those formative ages of really solidifying that ego and building it, which is a very necessary part that ego is not bad, a necessary part of development. All right. Take care, everyone. We’ll see you next week. Bye.

Dr. Rob (36:46.02)
Absolutely.

See you soon.