How Jungian Coaches Define Individuation

Episode Transcript

Debra Maldonado (00:01.191)
Hello everyone, welcome back to Jung on Purpose. I am Deborah Maldonado.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (00:05.861)
I’m Doctor Rab. Welcome to the show.

Debra Maldonado (00:08.425)
We have a very special show for today. Again, continuing from last week, we have four of our master level coaches that completed our program, a young in life coach training. And they’re going to share about the individuation process, what it feels like to go through it, and then how they work with clients. So hopefully inspire you to think about undergoing this process and and what it’s about and get them, get it directly from them.

But before we begin, I do want to remind you if you’re watching us on YouTube, please click the button in the corner to subscribe to our channel so you can make sure you get all our videos. And if you’re listening to us on Spotify or iTunes, any of the podcast services, don’t forget to subscribe as well. That really helps me us reach more people and change more lives. So thank you so much. So, Rob, we’re really excited to have these amazing people. we just love

We we of spending time with people that go through our program is just a very special thing for us.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (01:07.025)
Yeah. Yeah, I I always say we have the best students in the industry. And hopefully you’ll see what we mean by that. as you hear some of the some of our students and some of these great coaches talk about their experiences in the program. it is such a special calling.

that we have as coaches. But Jung Yang coaching even takes it further because we’re talking about really finding yourself, finding the true self in you, not in an abstract way, but in a very practical, direct psychological way. And that’s Jung’s gift to us as coaches, is that he left us a model of self-transformation that

When we put it to work and and not only on ourselves, but helping others and coaching others through it, it’s the most satisfying experience that we can have as human beings. So yeah, let’s let’s hear from some of these wonderful people that are with us today.

Debra Maldonado (02:19.229)
Yes.

Debra Maldonado (02:24.031)
All right. We’re gonna start with Darren Lyons, who is Hello Darren from Ohio.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (02:29.073)
Hey Darren, welcome.

Darren Lyons (02:30.177)
Hello. Hi. Thank you. Hi. That’s it. Joining from Akron, Ohio. My name is Darren. Thank you, Dr. Robin Deb, for having me. Really appreciate it. it’s such a pleasure to share my experience in the program and what I’m doing now. Thank you so much.

Debra Maldonado (02:50.109)
Yeah, I mean really specifically what I talk about, the individuation process itself. And so you’ve done other things before, before you’ve found us. what do you what what how would you describe the individuation process compared to some other things that you’ve done?

Dr. Rob Maldonado (02:50.192)
Absolutely.

Darren Lyons (02:59.457)
Yeah.

Darren Lyons (03:06.083)
the first word that comes to mind is depth. focus and depth. I think the one thing that your program offers is an opportunity to really focus on where, for me personally, where I was in understanding the conditioned behaviors that I I had developed over my life, the patterns of behavior that just weren’t serving me anymore, to take a real hard look at that.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (03:22.194)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Lyons (03:34.624)
in a methodical way and then to understand what was possible for me going forward. and Dr. Dr. Rob in your opening you talked about the practical aspects of the program and the and then understanding the possibilities that this program provides for transformation going forward. And that was something that I was looking for. And the fact that using Carl Jung psychology

To bring that methodical look at transformation. And then the spirituality that you offer through Eastern, the the Eastern philosophy really attracted my attention because I had sort of that background and interest in Eastern modes of of change and worldview. those two things really attracted me originally to the program. And then it was just, you know, my.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (04:21.84)
Yeah.

Darren Lyons (04:30.505)
My interest and my goals were really I was able to follow through with those in the

Dr. Rob Maldonado (04:37.457)
That’s awesome.

Debra Maldonado (04:38.442)
And what per particularly out of the individuation process, because people know it’s vast. There’s shadow work, working with archetypes, active imagination, dream work. What do you f what did you find the most helpful for you going through the process?

Darren Lyons (04:53.427)
Right. Well, I can give you a practical example. So I noticed that there was a pattern in my life of doing things, particularly, let’s say in my professional life, you mentioned I’d done a lot of things, and that’s true. I worked in government, I worked as a defense contractor, I worked in academia. But I always found myself I got to a point where I was like, this isn’t really what I want to do with my life. I I felt like I was I was accomplishing things for other people to please other people.

I was successful in some of those arenas, but but it wasn’t really what I wanted to do at core. I wanted to be more creative. I wanted to have more control over my schedule, more freedom in working with people. I felt like that the bro bureaucracies kind of stifled my ability to to provide service to others. That’s just an example. And so by going through shadow work, by looking at the emotional triggers that

Dr. Rob Maldonado (05:39.804)
Yeah.

Darren Lyons (05:52.908)
That relationships were causing in my life by looking at by going through some of the active imagination sort of meditations and listening to active imagination, I was able to go through and look at some of the symbols that you were walking us through and imagining some of the places that I wanted to be in my life and really paying attention to why these patterns kept.

being recreated in my life and sort of stepping out of those patterns and saying, all right, what’s possible? why am I getting frustrated in these same situations? Why am I repeating them? And what can I learn about those patterns so that when I’m triggered, I can act in a different way. I can act more freely. And that was just really eye-opening. so having gone through that myself, now

I can know what that feels like and I can work with my own clients to go through that same process and show them where those triggers I don’t have to avoid those triggers. I can go I can go towards them, I can learn from them and I can act in a different way.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (07:09.573)
Yeah.

Debra Maldonado (07:09.767)
And so what what when you work with clients, what what would you say is your specialty? What do your clients come to you for?

Darren Lyons (07:16.107)
Well, one thing I haven’t mentioned in my own story is my story includes substance addiction. And so so I like to work with clients who have addiction in their past. And and that may be with substances, but that may be also behaviors. That may be you know, spending too much time on the phone. That may be just they’re engaged in behaviors that seem compulsive, that seem like

They’re they’re doing things that are not serving them and they don’t know why. And so we take a look at those and we say, all right, you know, they may be they may be feeling like they’re normal, right? They’re they’re they’re normal people, they don’t have an illness or anything, but they want to change those behaviors in a way that a allows them to not feel like they have to engage in them. And so they’re wanna shift.

They want to lean into who they’ve always wanted to be in a free way. And those are the types of folks that I want to work with to sort of be able to explain why they’re doing those things and be able to break away and start to live the life that they want in more free, free sort of way.

Debra Maldonado (08:30.641)
And how does it feel as a coach? Some people think about I want to be a coach. How does it feel to coach someone? Like what is that experience like? I know you get to coach in the program, but also with your clients. Like what is a what is that feeling like?

Darren Lyons (08:44.757)
Well, I I’ll tell you the the real gem of the program is is coming out on the other end and being able to engage someone in a one-on-one way where where you know because there’s such close listening and active engagement that you’re both learning. There’s there’s this give and take. And so what coaching is for me is it’s it’s allowing the client to initiate the change.

And the way that I like to do that, and that we’ve we’ve been trained in the program is to ask questions, to allow an open space for the change to occur with the client. We’re not giving advice, we’re not telling the client what to do, we’re asking probing questions so that we’re building a space for the client to have those insights themselves through imaginative.

active imagination, so they’re so they’re thinking what their mind is coming up with on its own, looking at close the dreams that they’re they’re having when they’re sleeping, and looking what those symbols have to teach them, looking at the the strong emotions they’re having and what what those emotions are trying to tell them. And so my role is more of as a guide to kind of point them in the direction that they want to.

Rather than me having all the answers. The answers are within the client. It’s just a matter of helping to serve and show where that path leads.

Debra Maldonado (10:22.813)
I’m always amazed at how the clients have such insight and then they get so amazed too that, wow, I can’t believe that came from me. And it’s such so much more rewarding for the client than to feel like someone’s telling them what’s going on or giving them a label or a diagnosis. It’s like, no, you have the answers already inside of you and and it really is profound to witness.

Darren Lyons (10:45.521)
Absolutely. Yeah, this is a ultimately this is a person-centered approach where the fundamental assumption is that each and every one of us have value, we have the skills, we have the tools, we have the ability to to engage in real transformational change ourselves. And but sometimes we need help.

receiving that insight, right? And and and understanding what that insight means and what actions to take to lead to that real fundamental change. It’s it’s almost like having that support system to help us to help us really feel that we can do what we need to do in our lives.

Debra Maldonado (11:34.653)
It’s almost like pointing them in a direction they weren’t didn’t think to look at. Right? It’s like, it’s right over here. Okay. And then they look and there it is. Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Lyons (11:38.753)
Sure. Yeah.

Darren Lyons (11:44.266)
Absolutely, absolutely. And it’s and and like I said, you know, the the relationship is so so close because you’re so focused on these issues that that I change as well, right? It’s this dynamic that Carl Jung even talked about that when when we’re doing this deep work, it’s a dynamic where both sides are learning and having insights. And so so we’re both changing, we’re both learning as the process goes on.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (12:15.279)
That’s awesome. Darren, I know like me, you’re you’re a lifer in the in the helping professions, right? what would you say is the the main difference between other modalities, other kind of approaches that you’ve worked with in helping others and this process that like you say it focuses on

your own transformation as well as helping others.

Darren Lyons (12:47.741)
Such a great question. I I think it’s the foundation, Dr. Rob. One thing that you you really

you you really emphasize to us is this idea that we we are empowered to see the world as something that we that we can we can take everything in our world and control what the things that happen to us what they mean for our lives. In other words

There are some approaches that say, you know, we have to have a level of acceptance of the things that we can’t control, which which to a certain extent is true. But but to take the idea that no matter what happens to us, what others do to us, what events happen in our lives, we can always control what those things mean to us for our lives, right? Ultimately, it comes down to our ability to.

perceive what is happening in our lives. So even if I have real difficulties and real challenges in my lives, ultimately I’m the one who’s perceiving what’s happening to me. And what it comes down to is my ability to determine what that’s going to mean for my life. And and once my mindset shifts to that way of thinking, so many opportunities open up to me. And and

That’s not an easy thing to understand at the outset, but I I think once we allow our experience to show us those things, that that so that shift in mindset opens up so many opportunities for us to transform. And as long as as a client is willing and open to explore that idea, then

Darren Lyons (14:51.957)
This creative mind program can work. And and so and so if I can f if I can get someone in front of me who’s open and willing to explore this idea that that we can we can change the way difficulty the change the way we view difficulties and challenges in our lives, then then we can transform and change.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (15:23.665)
Yeah, I love that.

Debra Maldonado (15:24.927)
That’s beautiful. All right. Well, thank you, Darren. That was a beautiful share there. Yeah. And we’ll come back around for last thoughts at the end. So thank you. All right. next I’d like to call on Ashley. And Rob, you can ask this time. I feel like I don’t want to run the. I have control issues.

Darren Lyons (15:28.203)
Thank you.

Appreciate. And and thanks again for the opportunity. I look forward to hearing from my other students. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (15:48.862)
No, I love it. I love to sit back and and listen. yeah, Ashley, welcome. thanks for being with us, as well as you, Darren. yeah, so kind of individuation we know it’s a personal journey that we t undergo, right? Jung really developed it from his own experience.

Debra Maldonado (15:55.689)
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (16:18.593)
tell us about your ex personal experience as you’ve gone through the individuation process.

Ashley Noor (16:27.222)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Deb and Dr. Rob, for for having me here. It’s such an honor to be here. And, you know, I was thinking about this the other day. I can’t believe, you know, I’ve been in this this program for two years now. And I think about where my life was two years ago versus now. And it’s it’s my entire life has changed. Everything has changed. you know, I thought that

I was signing up to just train to be a coach. And what I actually realized, I mean, it’s been a very it’s an intricate journey to say the least. and it was nothing of what I expected it to be, but in the best way possible. So you know, what I would say for myself is that I think, you know, in in in kind of classic training, you can read a book, right? And you can you can understand.

logically certain aspects of things, but the way this program was designed was to actually have us go through this process on our own, to have a direct experience with it. And that in and of itself is I I mean there’s to me there would be no other way to really, you know, be able to capture the essence of it. this work is it’s so

grand and and you know there’s so many layers to it and it’s so personal and it’s so deep. so it’s it’s about so much more than just you know a kind of a surface level trying to figure things out from from taking insights into you know actions it’s about a full look at you know what’s kind of happening internally and being able to transform your life in a way that I I personally you know couldn’t have even imagined was

possible. So when I think about, you know, the journey the journey in and of itself for me with individuation, you know, the first thing that really comes to mind and stands out to me is like when I entered into this program, I was so attached to the identity of

Ashley Noor (18:43.606)
you know, this this story of the past, right? And this this person that I had always showed up as, right? It was it was this I didn’t even know that it was an identity. I thought it was just my personality. I thought this was just my life. you know, and I I was very much in a space where

Things were constantly repeating in my life, and I was saying, you know, why does this keep happening to me? Like I this is not working, and and like, and I felt so powerless against everything, you know, and I was so attached to, well, this happened and this is why, and this is what happened in my family dynamics, and this is why, and this is how I got here, and this is why my relationship is this way. And it was like blaming everything externally. and all of a sudden, when you start to do this work.

it flips everything upside down. So you know, for lack of a better way of putting it, it’s like it’s the first time that I was able to actually separate this identity from myself and to be able to say, wait a minute.

I actually have choice in this. like I’m completely empowered to make choices outside of the way that my mind is trying to, you know, keep me in in these loops or the you know, the way that I would be choosing normally. and when you start to challenge yourself and you start to actually look at yourself, right? Like what’s going on internally.

Everything starts to change. and you know, it’s like you realize I don’t have to choose this anymore. Like I actually have power to, you know, make different choices, whether that’s the environments that you’re in, you know, the work that you’re doing, the relationships that you have with your partner, your friendships, even your family, right? And it’s like you have this opportunity to finally take full autonomy over your life.

Ashley Noor (20:40.086)
And it seems so obvious, but it’s it’s not. And I think what I’m I’m watching kind of again and again, even with myself, as I continue to meet, you know, new edges with this work. you know, I I feel like this is very much just the beginning, you know. So it’s like we’re every day I’m like, gosh, there’s more. but there there is, but it’s beautiful, right? And I think that the the most powerful piece of what I think in in all of this has been.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (20:55.099)
Okay.

Ashley Noor (21:07.148)
you know, really learning how to say I can separate this identity from

What I who I want to be, who I want to become, I don’t have to let this past story define me any longer. and like separating yourself from the story so it’s no longer running your life really and and all these decisions that you’re making, even if you, you know, consciously aren’t realizing it. But I think the the final piece too of it is like the ability to learn how to work with the nature of your own mind. And Dr. Robb, that’s something that you, you know, have said over and over again. Like when you learn the nature of

Dr. Rob Maldonado (21:41.317)
Yeah, okay.

Ashley Noor (21:41.695)
your mind. I feel like I have your voice, you know, in my head for that. But it’s it’s the truth because it’s like you start to learn and through this framework, you know, we learned and now we can actually support our our clients through that as well.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (21:45.668)
Right.

Ashley Noor (21:58.069)
how to get curious about what’s really happening and then beginning to you know get out from underneath some of these things that have such a strong grip over us, these ways that we’ve been you know choosing for so long to show up or you know the the the kind of loops that are you know maybe presenting or patterns in your life on a regular basis. It’s like being able to actually step outside of it for a moment, take some space from it and

and see it from a completely different perspective and you know learning how to work with with everything that comes with that when you’re starting to take a new perspective. Yeah.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (22:37.565)
Wonderful. Deb, you want to take the next question?

Debra Maldonado (22:40.851)
Well, I just wanna say I know you work in I think relationships still. talk about w your work with your clients and how it is to coach people through the process, be the be in the coaching seat versus the coachy.

Ashley Noor (22:45.379)
Yes.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (22:46.077)
Awesome.

Ashley Noor (22:53.772)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, I I will say when I first started this program, relationships was not my I had no intention of starting with relationships or or focusing on relationships. I thought that I was I have a business background and I thought I would go into more executive coaching.

But when I started to go through this process, it started to become more and more apparent to me just like how profound this work is for relationships. And, you know, I think relationships, yes, in the traditional sense, like romantic partnership, absolutely, because there’s so much there and relationships are

my gosh, like the best playground for you know this work to be able to learn and you know it’s really a mirror of everything that’s going on. So it’s an amazing opportunity for you to grow. And, you know, I’m kind of seeing two sides of this right now with with romantic partnerships where you know, when you’re in clients who are dating and are really trying to understand why do I keep attracting the same partner? you know, this this person keeps showing up.

In my life, and like it’s them, they’re the problem, right? Or if they’re in a relationship, they’re so focused on this person, my partner is doing this thing, my partner is doing this thing. you know, and it’s like you you might find like a loop fight that’s going on in your relationship, or you’re ruminating in this like stay or go dynamic, like you’re stuck, and I don’t know if this person’s right for me, but I’m and there’s so many different parts of it, but I think like

what other models don’t necessarily account for, at least not what I have found in, you know, my own personal work up until this point was like we’re always so focused on the other person and like what happens when you turn it back to you. And that was when, you know, I think during the training when I saw this, I was like, okay, yeah, like this is it. Like relationships are such a an important piece of this because it’s really the entry point to being able to see yourself, you know. and so

Ashley Noor (24:58.682)
the other part of it that I would say is interesting is it it ends up, yes, we start with relationships, but it really opens it up to relationships in all facets of your life, right? Because if it’s showing up with your partner, or it’s showing up in your dating life, most likely it’s showing up in work, it might be showing up in friendships, right? Whatever this pattern is, but

The other thing is it’s likely show has shown up somewhere in your family. And I think that you know, just with some of the further training and and such that I’ve done, you know, with Creative Mind, specifically the archetypal family field training.

I have been fascinated to fully step in and understand like these roles that we are carrying. you know, these are archetypal roles that we’ve been carrying since we were children, right? So like the way that we’re showing up now as adults, these things that are coming into our adult relationships, you know, it’s really at the core of it is is based on a lot of this like early early childhood, like how the role that we were playing in our family, these archetypal roles that we were playing in our family. So

So the way that I’m working with clients right now is you know starting kind of meeting them wherever they’re at. So in whether it’s you know, like I said, a someone is dating and they’re struggling with that, like partner attraction or they’re in a relationship currently, or sometimes they’re

feeling like there’s a dynamic within the family system that they’re really struggling to you know, to like I, you know, my mother, my mother, I can’t, she keeps doing this thing and it’s her and I can’t stop making this happen, you know? And so and what what we start to realize and we start to open up is that it’s really like we start to look at the role that they’re playing. So, you know, what what is it that is your part in this, let’s say with partner attraction, right? There’s someone

Ashley Noor (26:57.168)
That has I’ve been working with actually for almost the last year, and she’s been dating, and you know, it’s she’s saying everyone is emotionally unavailable and everyone is, you know, superficial, and everyone has this like very specific way of you know, they’re they’re selfish. And so when we start to open it up a bit more, right? It’s like being able to see, well, actually, she was very afraid of being vulnerable, right? And being

truly able to be herself. And she was holding on to this identity that she had to self-sacrifice. Like absolutely that’s what love is, right? and so being able to look at that and be like, okay, well, if you’re, you know, you you are actually the one who’s carrying this and therefore it’s the way that you’re showing up that’s either, you know, pulling this person in or the pursuit of that type of person. You know, and I think one thing that’s interesting

When I first started, I I was really struggling with the concept of it’s like, yeah, but your partner or your parent or this person, like they’re still doing this thing, right? So like how is this on me? And I think it’s important to say it’s it’s and I do try to represent this in the work as well. Yes, that person has whatever the behavior is, right? But but our goal is not to look at what they’re doing, but rather what are you carrying?

that’s causing you to choose this relationship? What are you carrying that’s causing you to respond this way, right? Like what is it in you? What are you making it to mean about you? and that’s when, you know, you can really start to get to the heart of the work.

Debra Maldonado (28:40.307)
Yeah, I love that. And I wanna just say, Ashley, you I thought you were describing me when you talked about your client, the emotional available person. And it is so amazing and it’s so hard to realize that’s yourself. And and I think we’ll all d discuss this too, the resistance for clients to take that responsibility. It’s a journey to get even get there, right? You it’s so to really see it, but through the direct experience of the work, you get to start.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (28:40.359)
That’s a great way to put it. Yeah.

Debra Maldonado (29:08.359)
you real the client realizes that themselves. It’s not forcing them to believe anything.

Ashley Noor (29:13.184)
Yeah, and it it could take, you know, sometimes it just you just keep going and going and going with it and and and you know, we could talk about the same thing twenty times until one one day it just lands and there’s there’s a difference between

like having an insight around it and then having this experience where it fully lands in your body and you’re like, and then you embody that experience, right? And I think one other thing I would say too is that a lot of the people that I work with are very much in their thinking mind. you know, they feel very attached to the story, they’re thinkers, they’re they’re probably the ones that were like very responsible, maybe too responsible when they were younger in their family system where they felt like they had to perform to, you know, get

approval or you know, whatever that might look like for them. And so they’re constantly thinking. They are thinking about everything. They they need to like logically try to think their way in and out of everything, be 20 steps ahead. And you know, I think for me personally, it took a while. but Deb and and Dr. Rob and the amazing mentor coaches, like they just let me go for, you know, months and months and months of trying to like just keep working on it and working on it. Then one

Ashley Noor (30:31.884)
you can feel this too. There’s like a way to be able to get out of the mind and kind of into the body more and start to feel like, what does this feel like? What do what do I want to feel? What do I want this to feel like for me? What do you what do I want this experience to feel like? So I think that’s been a profound shift and I think working with people to get them into that feeling sense as well. Is its own journey within itself, but like so beautiful once they’re able to to do that, to give themselves that opportunity.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (31:03.207)
Yeah. y yeah, Jung said we can’t take people further than we’ve been. And so there there’s always this element of how can I involve myself so that I can help others. and and the other thing you bring up is really interesting is that this reflective element, right? That our our clients or the the clients that come to us

Debra Maldonado (31:03.783)
That’s wonderful.

Ashley Noor (31:10.37)
Mm.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (31:32.196)
or attract are are attracted to our work, they reflect something about us as well. And so we we get to work on ourselves in a way when we’re helping them or we’re when we’re coaching them. I’m wondering what what’s been your experiences is as to how this personal development ref is reflected in in the kind of coach

the kind of clients that you work with.

Ashley Noor (32:03.682)
Yeah, that’s a great question. And it’s so true. you know, and you said that would happen and I think the first you know, the first few clients that I had I was

It was almost like shocking about how how much we were mirroring each other, you know, at different stages of life and and also was so empowering because what I was able to do was say, I’ve I’ve been there in some aspect and you know there is an opportunity to move past this if you can really stick to this. and so I think, you know, you Devin Rob, you did a podcast on the wounded healer. this this comes to mind.

And I was probably about a year into the program when you had done that. And it really resonated with me because I think that, you know, and a lot of people in helping careers, myself included, you know, this wasn’t my my career at all. I I transitioned into this. But I had always had this desire to do this. And there’s something about, you know, wanting to use your story, wanting to use your you know, your reference point to be able to support other people.

And what I found was that as I started to go through my own process of individuation, of separating myself from, you know, the story, so to speak, right? Of everything that, you know, kind of happened in my past and everything that informed everything up until this point, I no longer was coming from a place where I was fueled by that story. and it was more about

being able to now say like with conviction, you know, I I fully understand that we can be attached to these stories, we can be attached to these identities. There’s no judgment in it. We we all have, you know, some aspect of it. and in some cases, you know, it could it it really shows up very strongly in your adult relationships. And if that is the case, like you have this opportunity to

Ashley Noor (34:12.332)
be able to now take all of that.

and completely transcend it and and completely now look at you know instead of being so focused on this this external everything that’s happening to you being able to take a step back and say you know it’s kind of like what do I what do I want to actually create with my life as opposed to all of this is happening to me right now and those are two completely different places to be so I think being able to

You know, I kind of always look at it as a three part structure where I’m like, you know, I I was I was where I was when I first started this program. And it took however long it took for me to kind of get and like I said, the work never ends, but you start to through shadow work, through active imagination, through

just like deep inner work of just constantly being able to to meet all of this with curiosity, to allow yourself to process the emotions, to really learn the nature of your mind. It’s like pulling this out of you, right? Like day by day, bit by bit. And then you get to this new place. And I call it baseline.

But I I think you you might call it rebirth. you know, it’s just it’s this sense of being able to like, okay, I I’m I’m actually standing on, I’m I’m grounded, I’m grounded in myself in a completely different way for the first time.

Debra Maldonado (35:26.799)
Yeah.

Ashley Noor (35:38.967)
And now it’s this exciting part where it’s like I could create anything I want. I can choose to be in any type of relationship. I can completely transform my relationship. I can choose a different path for work. I can, you know, navigate family dynamics in totally different ways without expectations of other people, anything to that nature. So I think my going through the journey myself and being able to.

you know, make it past that phase of coming in just, you know, being so fueled by the story and so attached by the story or to the story and being able to now see what it actually is on the other side of creation. I feel like I can hold that that vision for my clients to really be able to help bring them into that space as well. And yeah, and like help them get messy and feel really comfortable with it too because it’s you know it’s part of the process. It’s the human experience.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (36:31.749)
Yeah.

Debra Maldonado (36:35.909)
That’s wonderful. Well, thank you, Ashley. You’ve been amazing. And yeah, we’ll be circling back again for last thoughts. All right, let’s go to Tony. Tony Dina. That’s him. So Tony, you had done some personal growth work before you started and undergo the individuation process.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (36:36.695)
Thank you.

Ashley Noor (36:39.736)
Thank you.

Ashley Noor (36:44.611)
Thank you.

Tony Dina (36:47.586)
Hi everybody. That’s me. Yep. So yeah.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (36:49.034)
Tony.

Debra Maldonado (37:01.063)
What was was what was different about it? What can you what can you talk about your personal journey?

Tony Dina (37:06.092)
Yeah, it’s funny, I was in a leadership circle called Masters Team, overlapped with the program. So I started it first. And it was based on a communication style, it’s about leadership. And you know, we s one of the exercises, this is an interesting one. One of the exercises was to go meet somebody that you didn’t agree with and sit and listen and ask questions and get curious. And one of the things that happened is I was

Let’s just say this. I grew up in a faith tradition where there were a lot of male figures that dressed in black and wore what is commonly known as a tab collar shirt. It’s the one with the little white square right here. And, you know, we went through some of the, you know, the highlights as you would in the Christian tradition. Let’s start with original sin. Let’s go right to the beginning. And what happened at the end of this was I was really, really triggered.

And I didn’t know why. Yeah, I mean the conversation ended pleasantly, and we followed the exercise. But here’s the thing: I sat with one of the mentor coaches, Natalie, and we got on to spiritual authority. And before I knew it, a fuse was lit. A few days later, I put put 12 sentences together, my own personal version of the Nicene Creed. Now, here’s what’s really important.

As a coach who really wants to work with high-tech professionals to have meaningful work, meaningful work is anchored in what you value. You do the thing you care about, not just the thing that gives you money. It’s hard to talk about leaning into your values if you haven’t defined your own. So bringing this back to the coaching practice, I’ve I’ve really felt obligated to express it for myself. And it didn’t have to be something that.

The client shares, but just going through that process was really important. So that individuation process, classically, we would call this a shadow event, a trigger, something that annoyed us. It leaned into something where we asked deep introspective questions. That leadership circle, awesome. We would have ended at, I don’t agree with you, let’s move on, let’s get to common ground. But in this work, we go into why that is unsettling to us.

Tony Dina (39:34.358)
And I think that’s where the opportunities are.

Debra Maldonado (39:37.661)
I love that. Could you talk share a little bit more about the spiritual authority that you learned?

Tony Dina (39:42.934)
Yeah. Well I mean I

As Ashley was talking about, look, you can you I’ve been sitting in corporate for close to 30 years. as a fine artist who just fell into it accidentally and well, you know, I’m on the treadmill. And when we look at success, we look at goals and getting ahead and financial accomplishments, but relationships are equally important. One of the questions I have, and I’m gonna get to your spiritual question. when someone says

I’m trying to get back to leadership and I’m working on a thing, and this didn’t outcome didn’t happen. There’s contention. They took the project away from me. And my fundamental question is: how were you enabling them for that to happen? The client was ultimately looking at a shadow component on his own relationships. And I thought it was a very interesting tie that his success was equally tied to how he related to other people. Now let’s take spirituality.

You know, sometimes the thing we do on the weekend and then we park it and we go back to the rest of our daily lives. I like to think of it where your occupation and your vocation come together. The Japanese call this ikigai. Every moment, every motion is singly defined. Now, I’ll give you a little hint. I I was talking to my son about the frustration he was feeling about.

having to work and have friends and he’s exploring his own spirituality, which is pretty good at 27 years old. And he said, I, you know, dad, I just don’t have time for all of that. And so we started talking about how did we, how can we consolidate that, the exploration we share with our loved ones. And we’re learning and we’re growing together. And we can bring those essentially values back into the work.

Tony Dina (41:40.536)
place and apply them in unique ways. And when we know and identify that, when we know and identify that because we faced it ourselves, I think you reinvent your career and you don’t even have to leave your job. You know? I think that’s the beauty.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (41:58.116)
Awesome. yeah, the it is a ultimately individuation is a spiritual psychology in that it’s it’s guiding us through this process of dropping our over identification with our persona, our personality and our our work and all that, and putting us in touch with essence.

With self, with consciousness. And so it gives us kind of a broader perspective on ourselves and the world and what the mind is. And it just it’s just a totally different game, right? It i it it transcends kind of our everyday life.

Tony Dina (42:43.086)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (42:50.599)
How would you describe your work with your clients in that regard as to, you know, how do you help them move from that over identification with ego persona to this larger scope of life?

Tony Dina (43:07.522)
Yeah, this I was just thinking about this too. So when you develop a ha kind of an innate sense that when you meet resistance, like you know you’re supposed to do something, but you just don’t, and you just don’t even know why. You just don’t.

When you go through an individuation pro process, when you go through the program, you you get curious. You’re like, whoa, I’m heading towards my edge. There’s something here. When you lean into the fear, you don’t lose it. You don’t overcome it. You just don’t let it be the driver’s eat. You don’t let it have the final word. That’s where things that’s where I think things open up. Now

When I talk to clients about where they face their challenges, and they’re clearly, and Dr. Rob, you’ve talked about this with me, about, you know, it hidden inside the mandala of your challenge is the solution to the problem. I love that. I love that framing. The answers buried inside the problem. Sometimes it involves getting deeper into what we consider our hidden gifts, and sometimes we put those away as golden shadows.

Having gone through some of this and experienced some of the edges and phrase for me, and this is an interesting one, and it’s coming up a lot with a lot of the coaches that we’re talking with now, there’s a kind of this invisible hidden energy. You know, one of the things that never worked out in all the meditation retreats I went to, and I was a big d devotee, you get the silence, and sometimes you get the inklings and the ideas.

But when there’s a mentor coach or just a coach that’s mirroring back and challenging you and sh pointing you back to the thing you just said, that’s where the realizations come in. So I see this as a companion journey. And the spiritual component is so important. And that enthusiasm for possibility flows through at a level that we cannot describe. It’s like an an unconscious radio. You know, I was

Tony Dina (45:23.18)
I was in Dallas at a corporate event. I was actually delivering a whiskey tasting, don’t ask. And I was meeting with the executive chef Dean Fearing. He’s a James Beard Award winning chef. And I’m a big fan of professional kitchens and chefs. And he took me back in the kitchen and he showed me the line. I was really fascinated. I had spent my own time at a sister restaurant in Houston, Texas. And he said, you know, when a line cook has a problem.

Right when they have challenges at home, I talk with them and I said, Well, why do you do that? He said, Because happy cooks make happy meals. The meal you’re enjoying in the restaurant is a direct reflection of the emotional state of the cook. And we don’t think about that in business terms. We think about outcomes, we think about skills, we think about efficiencies and autonomy and automation, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, the result that’s what’s on the plate.

In any fashion, metaphorically or liter literally, is the result of who we are when we show up to work.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (46:30.417)
I love that.

Debra Maldonado (46:30.919)
And even the coaching, that’s I think true as well. Like if you aren’t really doing your own work and you just kind of learn the technique from like a weekend workshop or something and try to like just ask the right questions and you don’t go any through any transformational process, you don’t change enough to be able to facilitate transformation. Like you have to, you know, do it yourself first. I think that’s so important. And it is and also like I always think there’s no competition.

Tony Dina (46:35.81)
Home percent.

Debra Maldonado (46:59.325)
Because everyone has their little tastes, right? They’re a little energy. And the right people will be connected to you. Even if there are like a hundred love coaches out there, they’re gonna like you because you’re their like they like your dish, because you have a very every one of us has a very unique expression and a very unique energy and and will help ver people that are drawn to that energy. And you really have to enjoy it. I always say too, like when people are marketing their business.

That you can’t hate the marketing. You can’t like, I just wanna work with clients. It’s like, no, it’s all a part of the process, like loving that you’re you’re sharing who you are and people, you know, that’s all part of the process.

Tony Dina (47:38.946)
Hmm. You called it the sacred duty of being found. And I’ve never I’ve never forgotten that. That was September of twenty twenty five is when you said that. yeah. yeah. Well, whatever.

Debra Maldonado (47:46.408)
And I don’t remember ever saying that. So I don’t think I said it. I think my higher self said it. I I go to an altered state when I teach and yeah. Yeah. And we were we were talking the other day, someone was saying they worried about like putting themselves out there. And it’s like, you know what? You you’re you’re not selling your program. You’re inspiring people. You’re in the you’re in the job marketing is a the job of inspiration.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (47:52.281)
Tony Dina (47:56.236)
Yeah.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (47:56.925)
Yeah, that’s a good quote.

Debra Maldonado (48:13.873)
helping people know that there’s a opportunity to change, like all of you have shared, like there’s so much potential in us, you know, and to be that.

Tony Dina (48:20.43)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (48:24.743)
Thank you, Tony. Appreciate it.

Debra Maldonado (48:25.875)
Yeah, thank you, Tony. Awesome. All right, Carly. Carly Dean. If such a like a famous name, like s you should be like, I have a T V show or something. It’s Carly Dean.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (48:31.045)
Hey Carly.

Karlie Dean (48:35.782)
well thank you. Nice to be here.

Debra Maldonado (48:41.233)
So tell us where you were before you joined and started doing the indiv individuation process and like what you’ve done before and what what you what would you say is unique about it? that you how you explain that to your clients and and to people that are interested in the work you share.

Karlie Dean (48:57.476)
Yeah, wonderful. Before stepping into the Creative Mind program and and really stepping into a life of dedication to the process of individuation, to discovery of my my deepest self, I was I’ve I’ve been in an adjacent industry, I’ve been in the wellness industry for ten or so years. but in a different way of space holding, I was managing a retreat center.

And I was really called to start to work with people one on one. And and so I found I it I actually I read Young’s autobiography, a friend gifted it to me and I became fascinated with with his life and that led me to this program.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (49:47.792)
Yeah.

Debra Maldonado (49:48.177)
And the how is the individuation process for you, undergoing it yourself? What what would you what could you share? Any specific part of it that was really helpful for you?

Karlie Dean (50:00.835)
Yeah, when I came into the program, I I had this desire to really work for myself, to just to to be an entrepreneur and and I’m I was really drawn to that for the freedom of time and energy and finances that it would I I knew that it would bring me. And the the path of of becoming an entrepreneur.

is at least for me, was met with a lot of limiting beliefs, a lot of negative self-talk. to to step into a version of myself with so much responsibility and weight, it it brought up a lot of patterns for me around the ways that I was talking to myself. And it it really

Through this process of individuation, I started recognizing those patterns of thought more easily, quickly, and then started developing a different relationship with these conversations in my head. And really, what this process allowed me to create was a bit of separation, this real just deep understanding that I am not my thoughts. I’m not the stories that my thoughts are telling me about myself.

And then a step further, starting to understand maybe the circumstances in my life, the the experiences in my life that instilled these stories, maybe at a young age, maybe from parents or from society at large, just to start to separate out and say, you know, have this understanding like, you know, that’s not me, actually. That’s not really.

Who I am. So to listen to them, to allow them to design the life that I have really doesn’t make any sense. And so, what an empowering framework to just start to live with day by day, you know, increasing the frequency that I’m noticing these voices, and then really being able to separate out has just been a very empowering experience, especially as an entrepreneur, where

Dr. Rob Maldonado (52:03.943)
Mm.

Karlie Dean (52:21.828)
You know, you there really is a deep sense of of responsibility that I’ve had to step into in order to create a life of financial abundance and of from scratch, my you know, becoming my own marketer and you know, sales salesperson, and then of course, you know, doing the the work itself of of holding someone through their own transformation. yeah, what else can I say?

Debra Maldonado (52:39.751)
Mm-hmm.

Debra Maldonado (52:51.571)
Well, share a little bit about how you work with clients, the type clients you work with and what their experience has been and how it feels to coach people. Like I think a lot of people are curious of how does it feel to be a coach? You know, to to to facilitate the work for others and help them with their growth.

Karlie Dean (53:08.996)
Yeah. Well, what this work has really supported me in claiming in my own life is my creativity, is my creative power. And really listening to that deeper call that has always been in my heart, but maybe I haven’t been able to hurt here because of those negative voices that have been keeping me kind of small. And so the work that I do is

in is really inviting others into a more powerful expression of the gift that they’re here to give. And we all have that call. We can’t always hear it. So the work that I’ve been doing with clients is really about tuning into that voice and getting out of our own way enough to really embrace a life that allows us to live into that gift. So a life that maybe feels really

purpose driven and mission driven and connected to the soul. And it’s the the work that I do with clients, while maybe that’s kind of the desire that we start with, what I find in this work is that the goal, the presenting goal that we have, is often there there are many, many deeper layers that are maybe even a

The truer desire, the deeper desire that are creating this goal in your in our minds. So I’ll I’ll give an example. I have a I had a client who I would describe as very successful, highly analytical, professional, late 40s, and he came to me with this desire to

To take on more creative projects. He’s in a place in his life where he has the freedom to do that now. And he named that the thing that’s been blocking him from really owning that for himself in his life has been this pattern of people pleasing. And so that was what was in the conscious awareness. And the the journey that we went on, it was first what started to come up was actually.

Karlie Dean (55:28.194)
around the relationships in his life and really feeling like because of this people pleasing pattern he he wasn’t able to find a romantic love either that was like truly just f gave him this feeling of deep connection that he so desired and

So we kind of we went down this journey of looking at at the relationships in life and maybe the the blocks that kind of existed there. and and what we came to, and this was related to both the creativity and the the the like finding that relationship that really felt resonant, this kind of similar

block, I guess you could say, of unability to access is vulnerability. So like to put something out there creatively, right? Really takes a lot of heart and it’s vulnerable. It’s like you’re putting your ho heart out there for for anyone to to interact with, right? And then in relationship, it’s I mean, of course we all have this experience of to really give yourself to someone. Just your

Dr. Rob Maldonado (56:39.046)
Yeah.

Debra Maldonado (56:44.415)
Mm-hmm.

Karlie Dean (56:50.52)
It there there it feels like there’s this big risk, right, of heartbreak.

And what we noticed was that at the moment that vulnerability started to show itself, to be to come onto the table of relationship or creative expression, this other part of him would come in, this what we call what we would call the intellectualizer or this analyzer kind of part. And it would immediately come in, make meaning of what’s going on, back away from leaning in fully to the vulnerability and kind of

disrupt that process, right? And so in our work together, you know, we were able to come to just the awareness that that was happening, which is incredibly empowering in and of itself, because then going about your day, you start to notice, is that me or is that that intellectualizing part of me that doesn’t want me to feel vulnerable, right? And so then we have choice because we can see the patterns that are operating.

That are influencing us, and we can choose and start to apply discipline and willpower and choice and say, you know, I could do what I always do, which is back away and and you know, create really good reasoning around why I’m doing that. Or I could lean in and see what happens. And so that’s that’s what just a small example of what this process has created and.

One of my clients’ lives is is really just the power of choice, the power to create something new. it shines a light on the patterns that are operating in the background that you’re not even aware are are creating creating what you’re experiencing. And yeah, if I could just maybe boil down one core takeaway that that I’ve received is

Karlie Dean (58:53.726)
is everything that we think is influencing us from the outside, it’s really a reflection of our internal experience. And you can play with that kind of both ways. everything that we experience is really a reflection of our own minds. so I’m just really grateful to be walking this this path and

Yeah, it’s it’s like it it’s a it’s a beautiful established framework. that I feel really yeah, just brings yeah, I I think it’s just a beautiful framework to walk on a spiritual path.

Debra Maldonado (59:44.905)
Hmm. Yeah, that’s beautiful. I love that story.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (59:46.258)
Yeah, I love that that idea yeah, especially how it’s tied to creativity and and our our happiness, right? It’s like as human beings, that’s when we shine, when we’re creative, when we’re really creating our life actively and participating in it fully. so I’m I’m so grateful that you brought that up and kind of

framed it in such a beautiful way that it is central to who we are as human beings, this need to create and to be creative and to and often we we dim our own light, right? It’s like we nobody’s preventing us from being creative and and doing these great projects. We stop ourselves. And so always the work is is about

How can we get ourselves out of the way? Our own limitations, right? Our own thoughts, like you you were saying, our own limited limiting thoughts and and assumptions and and do that work that inspires us. just can you just say one last word about kind of

What what’s been revealed to you as your purpose? What what has kind of you know been that revelation in your your own work?

Karlie Dean (01:01:21.562)
Yeah, my purpose. You know, I I tend to believe that my purpose is ever changing, ever evolving. And and what I what I really ground into is the choice around a mission in life.

And they’re connected. there’s this sense that my purpose is to empower others to remember the just how powerful they are and the unique gift that they’ve come here to give. It sounds kind of mystical, and for me it it is.

And the way that I really ground that into my reality is in declaring what my mission is here. and you know, in this particular iteration is to create a coaching business that serves as as many people as I can with my my time. And it really comes from that just deep desire to to serve.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (01:02:42.181)
Thank you. Thanks, Carly.

Debra Maldonado (01:02:42.343)
I love that. Yeah. I’d love to just go around and see if anyone I know we all heard each other and any last shares, anything come to mind that you’d like to add before we go. just you can unmute and say hello and

Tony Dina (01:02:58.262)
I’m just gonna say, Carly, once again, so articulate, so beautiful, so well landed. As somebody who grew up in fine art, I couldn’t agree more that the act of creation is the act of being. It’s what we were meant here to do. Thanks for bringing that to the table. It’s beautiful.

Debra Maldonado (01:03:03.047)
Mm.

Debra Maldonado (01:03:14.783)
Mm. Bueno.

Ashley?

Ashley Noor (01:03:25.352)
no, I just I really enjoyed this discussion and you know I I remember when I first started being in this you know virtual room with all of these amazing people and thinking to myself like

There’s more people in this world that are, you know, curious about work like this. And and I felt like for the first time I was really in in the right place. And so just want to say thank you to, you know, to you, Dev and Dr. Rob, for creating that space for us and to all the amazing people that have been a part of this journey. and also to yeah, to the the clients either now or in the future that, you know, I hope hopefully will get to serve.

think Carly, I’ll second what Tony said. You said that so beautifully. You know, it’s really about at this stage holding like the absolute vision that anything that you want to create is is possible. And just knowing that you could take this wherever you want to go, truly.

Debra Maldonado (01:04:35.567)
Wonderful. Da Darren?

Dr. Rob Maldonado (01:04:36.241)
Thanks, Ashley.

Darren Lyons (01:04:39.337)
Yeah, I just wanted I want to thank everyone for speaking today. You guys have such great inspirational words. I’ve been jotting notes about how wonderful you all are. but and I want to keep it as simple as I can. this program has shown me that a life of love a life based on love as opposed to fear is filled with fun. I I don’t think we can forget the the fun aspect of it all.

It it’s based on fun and it’s it’s based on just renewal. And and that doesn’t mean that there’s not gonna be difficulty and suffering and frustration in life anymore. But I I asked my potential clients, you know, can you imagine a life where when those things come about, when suffering comes about, can you

Can you imagine a life where you notice it in the moment and and have the confidence and faith that you can always go back to this vast core of your true self that’s full of of creativity, that it will allow you to act in a free way, the way that you want to act in any given situation? And and if you can imagine that kind of reality, then then this is the program.

And we’re the kind of coaches that you want, you know. So thank you again for this opportunity. I sincerely appreciate it.

Debra Maldonado (01:06:10.237)
I love that. Yeah. Darren, I’ve worked with so many people too that I asked that question and they have a hard time, and you might all agree, the the rest of you, when you first work with someone, have a high they have a hard time conceptualizing what that would be like. Some people just don’t even aren’t in even touch with their joy. Like they don’t have terrible things in their life, but they’re kind of flat and they’re like, I can’t even be hopeful. Like I I I can’t even get there. And then they do the work and they it’s inside of them already. It’s not that they have to cultivate it, it’s inside of them.

And it’s like you’re moving their what’s in the way of them experiencing it. And it’s just so rewarding to see people light up again, you know, to to be in love with life again. That is it’s not about just finding the right person and making a lot of money and you know, all those things. It’s it those things are fun and great. But it’s like to know that the power is within you and that you you have a choice to be happy every day and you know where to find it. You don’t need it something external to get there. I think it’s just a priceless gift.

Darren Lyons (01:07:04.713)
Absolutely.

Debra Maldonado (01:07:08.425)
that you all give your clients.

Darren Lyons (01:07:10.505)
Absolutely. Thanks.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (01:07:12.061)
Thanks, Darren.

Debra Maldonado (01:07:13.437)
Yeah. Any last words, Rob?

Dr. Rob Maldonado (01:07:16.529)
Well I hope some of you that are tuning in can see why we do this work. these amazing people that we get to work with, for me that makes it worth worthwhile. And it always helps me do my best when I think about our students and it is a journey.

we’re not perfect, we’re learning. But that that’s kind of where we find our joy as human beings if we’re able to create if we’re able to share our creation with wonderful people like like you guys then it the journey just is full of joy

Well creativity, there’s always sorrow, of course, and there’s always loss in life. But we’re able to to bear that and to learn from those things. And that’s for me, that’s the ultimate yeah in life that we can we can endure these things, the difficult challenges, and also share and create and

uplift each other. so thank you all for doing your work, for sharing your work with others, daring to be coaches. We know it’s a big challenge. And and for sharing the these wonderful moments with us.

Debra Maldonado (01:09:00.671)
So thank you, Darren Lyons, Ashley Noor, Tony Dina, and Carly Dean. And you’re if you want to find out more about them, we have links in the show notes, whether you’re watching us on YouTube or on our podcast, so you can find out more about them if one of these coaches s sparked your interest, all of them, their contact information will be in the show notes. so really appreciate all of you and your time. Like I Rob said, every time we

We meet are around our students and graduates. We always think how lucky we are to have be so blessed to have such amazing people in our life. You know, it’s just really wonderful. Yes. So thank you all and it for all your wisdom. And those of you who are tuning in, we’ll see you next week. Take care.

Dr. Rob Maldonado (01:09:44.83)
See you soon.